Ohio Might Get a Prop 2

Now how long until... (4.00 / 3)

like in California, we start to hear about people in Hamilton County talk about seceding from Toledo and Columbus and Youngstown and Cleveland or something?  Heh...

They mentioned a 1950's era egg carton that boasts on the label that the eggs are clean because the caged hens never touch the ground.

Ughh, backwards logic indeed.  Reminds me of the stories you hear about children touring farms and asking questions like "why is all the food sitting in the dirt".  Ya know?  It's okay for a 6 year old to think like that, but adults?

"Intelligent discontent is the mainspring of civilization." - Eugene V. Debs

---

by: JayinPortland @ Wed May 06, 2009 at 11:30:45 AM CDT

First they threaten you with (4.00 / 4)

eggs from Mexico, then if you don't listen, it's seceding {grin}

It never really occurred to me that a chicken touching the ground laid dirty eggs . . . . .

---

by: nycstray @ Wed May 06, 2009 at 11:59:05 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Our chickens touch the ground (4.00 / 2)

sometimes they even lay the eggs on the ground. Sometimes the eggs have mud mixed with manure on them because the hens are walking through mud, then lay the egg in the nest box, then step on it when they leave, or they come in to lay an egg and step on the one that was already in the nest box. Sometimes there's blood on the egg. Sometimes a chicken poops in the nest and a hen lays an egg or rolls an egg right into the poo. Just like  a cake with a cherry on top. There's all sorts of ways that eggs can get dirty in a free range laying set up.

That's why I wash all the eggs, that's why there is a certain way you need to wash eggs, and why you don't want to use cracked eggs. I still use cracked eggs if they're not cracked too bad and I'm going to cook 'em right away, an I catch it before they go in the hot soapy water, but I won't sell a cracked egg or one with checks because there's always the chance of salmonella, etc.

That's why when cage laying started, one of the marketing advantages was that the eggs stayed clean.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

---

by: Joanne Rigutto @ Wed May 06, 2009 at 14:21:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Just another argument (4.00 / 2)

for increased use of ballot initiatives, referenda, and recall.  I wish we had these in PA because there certainly are issues like factory farms that the legislature won't address.

Vote for yourself at www.ni4d.us!

---

by: rossl @ Wed May 06, 2009 at 16:27:03 PM CDT

Mixed (4.00 / 1)

On the one hand I detest these farming practices - or rather I should say industrial practices, they aren't farming. Yet on the other hand I hate even more the government stepping in like this. We should eliminate practices like this through market forces, by not buying from producers that crate and cage like that. Buy from pastured producers. Vote with our dollars. The problem with government intervention is where does it stop? It is a long and slippery slope...

---

by: pubwvj @ Wed May 06, 2009 at 20:45:00 PM CDT

But when it comes to voting with dollars (4.00 / 1)

a lot of people are simply held hostage by the fact that they need to eat and don't have a lot of money. Yesterday I was buying sugar and they had organic sugar, fair trade sugar, and organic fair trade sugar. I went for the fair trade but not organic because it was half the price of the organic, fair trade and $1 cheaper than the organic and non-fair trade. That's not what I wanted to do but I'm freaking broke. If someone had a ballot initiative and asked me what I wanted, I'd certainly vote for improving agricultural practices and human rights laws even though I was unable to completely do that with my dollars.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

---

by: Jill Richardson @ Wed May 06, 2009 at 23:00:55 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I can understand where you're coming from Jill (0.00 / 0)

But Walter's right, the market is the way to go with changing production types in animal ag and in plant ag for that matter. One of the problems with using legislation to change ag is that generally the legislation results in an increase in cost to the producer without ensuring that the public will pay the higher price of these products.

With the cage egg production, those producers don't just keep their hens in cages because they like being cruel to the chickens. They do that because that type of farm is more efficient in some ways than a cage free or range hen farm. You don't loose birds to predators, even to each other because their beaks are clipped. The eggs come out and into an automated system to handling, washing, sorting and packing. The margines are low, but you can keep so many hens in production that you'll still make enough money to keep you afloat, and because you have so many hens, you can buy your feed by the ton, etc.. All so that people can buy eggs at the store for less than $2.00/dozen.

Cage free and range hen farms are much more labor intensive. If you have a lot of hens, you can still automate some things, like using an egg washer, instead of washing each egg by hand, and you can still buy your feed by the ton, but you're still going to be much more labor intensive, in the case of a farm like mine, you're going to have to go hunting for stray nests when you see your production drop, you'll loose stock to predators. I have to keep telling Harold 'No, it's not OK to shoot the Red Tail Hawk than has in the past perched on our barn roof, shopping for chicken", and so on and so forth. So, the price per dozen goes up. Also, with lower volume, you have to get a higher margin, which you can do if you're selling retail, but perhaps not if you're selling wholesale to a market.

What a sudden change in production types through legislation does, is push production into lower cost states. Oh, some farms will switch over to cage free production, but mostly you'll see eggs being shipped in from other states, especially in border areas.

It's taken decades to switch from the old ways of farming to the industrial systems we have now. While I don't think anyone wants to go back to a purely hand and draft animal production styles, a hybrid of the old and the new is emerging. It's going to take time to transition, however far that transition can go. Market pressure is the surest way to make that change. It means the change will go slow enough for farmers to see an advantageous market, and it'll give them time to move into those markets. It will also give consumers time to make the supply connections and in instances where cost of production goes up, it will give consumers a chance to get used to the higher prices.

Anyway, just my two bits....

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

---

by: Joanne Rigutto @ Thu May 07, 2009 at 07:42:30 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think the real gain from the (0.00 / 0)

ballot initiatives isn't the change in ag practices... you're right, eggs can come in from other states with lax laws. It's the public awareness gained about how food is produced. When there isn't a ballot initiative coming up, there's little reason to put this stuff in the news.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

---

by: Jill Richardson @ Thu May 07, 2009 at 07:47:11 AM CDT

[ Parent ]