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Poison in the Compost

by: Jill Richardson

Sat May 14, 2011 at 22:42:45 PM PDT


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Our neighbor's landlord put rodenticide in our compost pile. I am hopping mad over it. Details and pics below.
Jill Richardson :: Poison in the Compost
If you read this blog, you probably know a little about my garden. I haven't written much about it recently, but it takes up most of my yard, and we attempt to grow as much of our food as we can. Here's a brief photo tour before I tell you what happened today:


Strawberries with calendula and borage


Onions, beets, beans, favas, daikons, and a few lettuce and chard plants.


Tomatoes, oregano, and chard


Peppers, cucumbers, and eggplants that we just planted, with a straw mulch


Potatoes, with a coffee chaff mulch from a local organic roaster


The compost bin, right on the fence the borders the neighbor's yard

This story probably starts a few weeks ago, when a new neighbor moved into the duplex next door. A man I liked a lot had recently moved out. After the fact, I found out that he had gotten in a fight with the man living in the other home in the duplex, and that man had gone to jail. His wife (Sarah?) still lives there. She has chihuahuas that yap all day and all night and she does all of those things that chihuahua owners do, like carry them everywhere in a bag and dress them up in silly clothes. She even has a T-shirt with a photo of her and the chihuahua on it. Sarah seems pretty nice.

After the other man moved out, the new neighbor moved in. Sarah's brother, I think. I think his name is Wayne.

Yesterday, I went outside and he had a dead snake on a piece of cardboard that he wanted to show me. Then he grabbed a dead mouse or rat by its tail and held it up to show me. Uh-oh. If he's using chemicals to kill pests, we've got trouble. My cats could eat the mice that ate the poison, or the bugs that ate the poison, or the birds that ate the bugs that ate the... you get the picture. I asked if he killed it. "Mumble mumble," was the reply, which I assumed meant yes. I asked how. I couldn't understand the answer.

I asked if he used poison to kill it. He mumbled something that I thought meant no. I warned him what might happen if he used a pesticide, that it could harm my cats.

Today, I woke up and went outside to check on the garden. I saw these blue pellets on the fence next to the compost. Then I went to a farm where I had to be at an event I was running late for.


Blue pellets

While at the farm, I got a call from my roommate. The neighbor's landlord was threatening us. She was angry that her tenants had complained about rats and snakes and she thought it came from our compost. She was going to complain to the city about us. Upset, I left the farm. As I drove home, I realized what the blue pellets were. Rodenticide. Rat poison.

At home, I found more blue pellets in the compost bin itself. If we hadn't found it there, it could have gone into our garden via compost and, if the plants took it up, it could have poisoned us!!!! Nobody asked our permission to put poison in our compost. Nobody even told us they had done this. The dog likes foraging in the compost when he can get into it (which we try to prevent). Or a rat could have eaten it and then my cat could have gotten the rat. Any one of us could have been harmed.


Blue pellets in compost

I asked my neighbors about it. It was the landlord, they said. When the landlord spoke to my roommate before, she was apparently pretty snotty, and she refused to give her phone number then. I'm furious.

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I'd frame it as... (4.00 / 4)
"I don't know who might have done this, but I'm extremely concerned, because this is putting poison in the food system--which is a terroristic act. I think someone was trying to murder us."

"Just imagine if the chihuahuas next door had gotten a couple of these pellets--I assume that some of these might have fallen on the other side of the fence too. They're so tiny, it'd hardly take any of this stuff to kill one of them, and there's more than enough over here to kill an adult human being."

"I think we should call the police to investigate."

[With suggestions of terrorism, attempted murder, etc., in the air, the trivia of noise and chickens won't even rise to the surface.]

Full court press. No mercy.  Done smoothly, Sarah will turn on Dwayne so fast that he won't know what hit him....

I'd be furious too. Livid.


I think the landlord did it (4.00 / 2)
not Dwayne. He was acting really sorry when I spoke to him a little later in the day.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
It's putting poison (4.00 / 3)
where a child or a domestic pet might ingest it. I would report it to the authorities. Those blue pellets might look like candy to a child and that is exactly the way I would frame it. That coupled with hacking up the snake (a beneficial insect eater) and scaring a child with it make him sound deranged.  

The neighbor sounds like a nutcase and a dangerous one at that. I think I would try to find somewhere else to live.

In the future, I would suggest an enclosed compost bin with a lid.


[ Parent ]
You're right that the pellets (4.00 / 3)
could look like candy to a kid. Not so different from Pez or something. The neighbors are nice. The problem is their landlord.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
bad neighbors (4.00 / 1)
I wish I could ask him to go away entirely.

That is a mini-step on the path to a rational response. D-wayne is dangerous. Hacking snakes into pieces and mounting them on cardboard to show toddlers is psychopathic behavior. He needs to be institutionalized as soon as possible. He does not belong in the community without supervision.

Seriously. I would have that guy checked out. See if he's a convicted sex offender, see if he has a criminal record. Are the girls safe with him around?

A bad neighbor is the urban-suburban nightmare.

I don't know about the laws in your locality, but some things the landlord did are illegal in many places. I don't know what you can do about it - some things you might do could involve authorities coming onto your property, and that might lead to the loss of your chickens. Can you get a restraining order? Whether or not she owns the house next to yours, she doesn't live there, and she shouldn't be allowed within 500 feet of your place.

Terrible story, Jill. "Hopping mad" doesn't begin to convey your anguish, I'm sure.


I'm still trying to grasp the 'thought' process... (4.00 / 1)
...behind whoever did it -

"Eek!  Omg, a rat... let's kill the neighbors!"

Something like that, I guess?

Never ceases to amaze me how some people manage to make it through life without killing themselves or others, despite the fact that it's a borderline miracle they don't get lost every time they bend over to tie their shoes...


[ Parent ]
Actually, you should have... (4.00 / 3)
...had some fun with him -

Once, he asked me if we could eat the fresh eggs from our chickens, or if we had to put them in an incubator first.

I'd start by mentioning that we were thinking of hiring someone to sit on them for us.

Sorry to hear that, that really really sucks.  Ughh.  That's not just crossing the line, that's more like jumping up and down on it with soccer cleats for three hours while saying nasty things about its mother.

I mean, can we say 'reckless disregard?'  I know you sure don't want to be at war with the neighbors and their landlord, but I mean when they start taking extreme and violent action against you, which is exactly what this is...

!!!


Those rat pellets (4.00 / 3)
are especially dangerous to chickens. Since they're made to smell good to a rat, chickens would love them.

Frankly, they're awful to any living thing (4.00 / 5)
and worse, they kill the animals that eat the victims too. The only responsible use for those is when they're in places where no other animals can get inside, like inside a no-exit trap.

I confess to using poison in my attic once. But, I knew the only secondary victim would be us, smelling decomposing dead rat. Turned out there was a tree branch that led to a tiny hole in the ventilation screens, and that's how they came in.  

As it was, he did a deal with a blancmange, and the blancmange ate his wife.


[ Parent ]
This is appalling (4.00 / 4)
No one should put rodenticide on your property without your knowledge or consent. Pellets like this can be readily eaten by dogs, cats ... or toddlers. It's very serious.

That said, when you talk to the landlord, you also need to acknowledge the rat problem and tell him how you are dealing with it. Tell him about the snap traps, or the electronic traps, or whatever you are doing. You need to do those things and you need to address it.

(BTW, I've dealt with urban rat problems even without an explicit garden or compost. They may be enjoying your place but it's not the case that they wouldn't be around without your garden.)

Despite your fury, the best way to handle this is still one on one, neighbor to neighbor, where you express some sympathy for the landlord's predicament and just ask that next time there's a problem that you confer together on it, and then make a plan to go forward. Getting authorities involved is not going to go well for you - all you'll do is "prove" in their eyes that chickens and compost attract rats.

Good luck.

As it was, he did a deal with a blancmange, and the blancmange ate his wife.


I can't even imagine (4.00 / 4)
how freaked/pissed I would be if I found that sh*t in my yard. I was in my yard one day last summer and found a sticky trap in my yard. Apparently the county had put it in my apple tree by the back fence looking for some type of bug. They notified my neighbors thinking it was their tree. I was in the yard with my dog when I found it on the ground. I had no clue as to what it was. Luckily, it fell out of the tree because the county guy was trying to collect it. He got an earful from me even after he explained it was safe /non toxic etc. Being a recent transplant from Brooklyn, the first thing that went through my mind when I saw it was some sort of poison rodent trap because you always saw posted notices about them being around. Speaking of which, isn't it required that notices be posted when someone sets out rat poison here?

Garden or no garden, there will be rats and snakes coming into neighborhoods (along with coons, possums, wildcat varieties etc) You could blame it on their trash cans ;) Or standing water etc. You might want to check out if this is an animal cruelty (your pets) issue also should one of yours get sick or dies. Not sure of the laws here, but in NYC if someone put poison in your yard and injured/killed your pet, that very well could be a felony.

Your garden is looking good! And my Dot agrees with your dog. Compost piles make good foraging ;)  


That's terrible and extremely reckless putting that poison in your compost (4.00 / 4)
It should be very easy for you to find out who owns the property next to you. If California is anything like Oregon, all you need is the address and look up the property tax records. They should be public records and the information on line. That should include the owner's name, and contact information.

Whoever put the pellets on your compost pile probably was not trying to intentionally make you sick or kill you. They were certainly 100% in the wrong, and exibit an astounding ammount of stupidity. The appropriate thing would have been for the neighbors to put out the poison on their side of the fence. Then come talk to you and your roomate about the perceived problem, and for both them and the two of you to work out a solution. If the chihuahuas were a problem, they could have been locked out of the area where the poison was set out.

However, you've got an open compost pile, and that is a smorgasboard for rats. I know, I have the same kind of compost pile down behind the barn, and I get wildlife digging through it occasionally. You also have the chickens and feed, which is a smorgasboard to rats and mice. Even if you keep your feed bins covered, they can still smell it, and will root around trying to get in. If you're not doing something to keep their numbers down, they'll breed until you're over run by them. I held off using poison in the greenhouse for so long that the mice got thick enough to wipe out a whole day's work (and over $1,000 worth of potential seedlings) in one night.

Did the neighbors' landlord discuss remidies for the rodent problem she believed exists?

I use poison out here to control mice and rats, and I have to be very careful where I place the poison to ensure that the poultry and Chaz can't get into it. I use the same blue pellets that were put on your compost pile (a brand called Just One Bite), as well as bait blocks.

You need to face it, what you're doing does attract rats and mice. Even if you don't have a problem right now and the neighbors' landlord is exagerating, you will have a problem evenually if you don't do something to control the rodents.

Normal people scare me.... But not as much as I scare them.


Chaz is doing great! nt (4.00 / 1)


Normal people scare me.... But not as much as I scare them.

[ Parent ]
And the landlord (4.00 / 3)
is not in a good place, either. When tenants complain about a vermin infestation, the landlord is expected to take swift and immediate action. He/she is vulnerable to tenant complaints to city agencies.

As it was, he did a deal with a blancmange, and the blancmange ate his wife.

[ Parent ]
hmm... (4.00 / 4)
we had compost piles for 10+ years and never attracted rats, that we ever saw.  out in the suburbs, too.  we certainly have had possums and raccoons get into the back yard, and of course the resident squirrel population.  And I know this town does have some rat population.

a couple of things I note, however, from your pictures.  don't know if you've addressed some of them before, but here's another 2-cents.  

a)  as someone else said, your compost pile does not appear to have a cover?  we always had a weighted-down metal cover on our compost tubes (rounds of 1x2" grid "chicken wire", 5' tall was the size that wire came in.  get about a 3-4 yard length, wire it into a column about 3 feet across, with about a foot overlap.  the plastic-coated twist ties that come with garbage bags will be heavy enough for this.)

b)  whenever I made a "deposit", I covered it immediately with a layer of dry leaves.  I would collect appropriate materials in the kitchen (NO MEAT SCRAPS, EVER!!!) in a large-size yoghurt can with lid, at the side of the sink.  tea bags, broccoli stems, apple cores, that sort of thing.  I kept a second column to collect dry greens, and fall leaves, in, for the dry covering layers... with a solid lid, you can keep your dry stuff dry through the rains (more a problem here in OR than in San Diego, I expect)

c) the idea of dogs foraging in the compost pile seems really quite yuck to me, and makes me wonder if there ARE??? meat scraps or eggshells in yours?  also, I would strongly advise NOT putting CORN COBS in the compost.  they are extremely woody and will take a LONG!!!! time to break down, if ever.  even husks, I found, even if cut with scissors to one inch long sections, would not break down in fewer than 2 or 3 semi-annual turnings.  the corn-cob thing... my DH kept rats at one point in his youth and found that although they usually got along quite well, when he put A corn cob in the cage the first time , it was "war for My Precious"!!!  he was amazed, and learned to break the cob in half, they would each retreat to a corner with their prize.  so any corn cobs should probably go in the garbage that leaves the property.

d) also, is there any way you can keep the chicken-feed inside the house, if it appears to be attracting the rats?  or possibly keep it in an impermeable container... like those 5 or 10-gallon white-plastic buckets with snap-on lids?  check at recycling centers, or home improvement stores.  

e) can't tell from the photos, and your layout looks pretty packed, but ... too bad the compost got located up against a neighbor-yard fence, instead of against the back alley wall.  IF there is one, and not just another neighbor edge.  well, I guess you said the former resident was a good guy.  but if re-location of the pile is a possibility, it might make interference by dimbulb neighbors less likely.

good luck! and let us know how it works out.


PS, re fence (4.00 / 5)
as if the above weren't long enough already, 8-)

f) making the fence the 4th wall of the compost enclosure might seem like a good idea at first, but it will speed up the "death" of the fence boards by packing moist compost up against it.  fences are a PAIN to replace, so you don't want to shorten their life-cycle if you can possibly avoid it.  our old free-standing wire columns, for example, didn't contribute to "fence-rot" and we have the same type fence as in your pictures.


[ Parent ]
Agree 100% (4.00 / 2)
Also, putting something that has any possibility of being called a nuisance directly against the fence line is asking for trouble.

When I lived in Glendale, they gave away those $100 plastic compost bins for free if you'd come do their class. They were happy to divert a large portion of the waste stream and so the expense was worth it.

As it was, he did a deal with a blancmange, and the blancmange ate his wife.


[ Parent ]
I keep my chicken feed (4.00 / 3)
in a simple metal trash can. Keeps it safe from moisture and foragers.

The bigger problem sometimes is keeping it safe from the rodents while it is available to the chickens. There are some feeder designs where the chickens have to step on a lever to open a lid on the bin. They're expensive to buy, but you can find the designs free if you want to make your own. The other solution is to only put food out at times when the chickens are locked inside, and to feed them little and often so that there's never an appealing bin of dinner for rodents.

As it was, he did a deal with a blancmange, and the blancmange ate his wife.


[ Parent ]
"War for my Preciouus" (4.00 / 2)
ROTFL.

Dog may be rooting around following the rat scent, also.

As it was, he did a deal with a blancmange, and the blancmange ate his wife.


[ Parent ]
answers (4.00 / 3)
the compost is "vegan" plus eggshells. You've kind of exhausted me with all of these questions. Pardon me for not answering the rest. We do have a 4th wall between the compost and the fence.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
Nothing Oily, Either (4.00 / 2)
Rats might go for any oily food in the compost pile, not just meat scraps.

[ Parent ]
By the way, Jill (4.00 / 4)
The garden looks fabulous! Your hard work is paying off handsomely.

As it was, he did a deal with a blancmange, and the blancmange ate his wife.

And I am jealous because mine isn't even in yet (4.00 / 4)
As it turns out, it's lucky it's not... because it SNOWED here last night. May 15. That is so wrong.

As it was, he did a deal with a blancmange, and the blancmange ate his wife.

[ Parent ]
Thanks!! (4.00 / 3)
It's my pride and joy, truly. Today we picked a daikon and 5 beets. We've got a few ripe strawberries to eat this week, and a nice big lettuce for a salad that we haven't picked yet, and a HUGE chard plant that's about to flower.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
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