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Scientists Debunk Huber Letter - What Do We Make Of It?

by: Jill Richardson

Sat Feb 26, 2011 at 12:55:15 PM PST


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There's a new post on Food Safety News about a formidable team of Purdue scientists who think Huber (who authored a letter to Tom Vilsack raising preliminary findings of problems with glyphosate or Roundup Ready crops) is full of baloney. Their reasoning sounds quite plausible to me (a non-scientist) and I can say for sure that, scientifically, this is WAY out of my league. So what do we non-scientists (who rely on the integrity and intelligence of scientists to understand these issues) make of it?

I still say I want to hear from Huber himself. Let him speak to the media on why he wrote the letter, and let him answer these claims.

What we need to remember here is that ANY time a scientist criticizes biotech, they get attacked. Whether or not their claims are true. In fact, I would say: the more credible the scientist and the claims, the bigger the attack. I pulled out my copy of the book Food, Inc. by Peter Pringle (totally unrelated to the movie) to review some of the past episodes. See below for more.

Jill Richardson :: Scientists Debunk Huber Letter - What Do We Make Of It?
Does Bt Corn Kill Monarchs?

In the spring of 1999, as the monarchs embarked on their return flight north, a young Cornell University entomologist name John Losey reported in the journal Nature that the monarch's future appeared to be endangered, not from urban sprawl or toxic waste but from eating the pollen of genetically modified corn. - Food, Inc., p. 122

Losey came under major attack, both from his own colleague, Anthony Shelton, and by the biotech PR apparatus, which claimed that more butterflies were killed by colliding with car windshields than by eating GM corn pollen. In his analysis, Pringle (who is actually pro-biotech) says that the biotech industry was bluffing because in reality, there was no scientific evidence to back them up.

Losey had always admitted that his work was only preliminary, not conclusive, but of course that did not quell any of the attacks. After his initial publication in Nature he followed up with more research. The next study provided "the first evidence that transgenic Bt corn naturally deposited on milkweed in a cornfield causes significant mortality." (Food, Inc. p. 130)

Whatever anyone thought of Losey's or the Iowa study, the researchers had clearly identified a hazard for the monarch butterfly. The biotech companies moved swiftly to control the damage, calling for more research and putting up funds to convene an inclusionary process and have third parties develop the data. Several academics, including Losey and Chip Taylor of Monarch Watch, were invited to carry out studies funded 60 percent by industry with the rest of the funding coming from government grants and other sources. Losey said he wanted to research whether monarchs would avoid pollen-dusted leaves, but the industry was not interested in his inquiry, so he bowed out. The industry said Losey wanted to "take the research in his lab in a different direction" from the one they had chosen. - p. 130-131

Arpad Pusztai

The same year that Losey first published his findings about monarchs, another scientist also incurred the biotech industry's wrath. He was Arpad Pusztai, a researcher at the Rowett Institute in Scotland, who studied the safety of GE potatoes that produced a chemical called lectin.

In his study, he fed rats either potatoes, GE potatoes with a gene to produce lectin, or regular potatoes that he had laced with lectin.

At the beginning of his third year of research - 1998 - Pusztai became concerned by preliminary data showing that rats fed the transgenic potatoes showed a slight retardation of growth, plus a degrading of the immune system. - p. 110

He was asked to talk about his experiments on TV and he did so with the approval of the Rowett Institute. While on TV, he was asked "So, if genetically altered foods can affect rats in this way, could they possibly have long-term effects on humans too?" He answered that he did not eat GMOs until there was more evidence of their safety... and that it was very unfair to use the British people as guinea pigs. As a result of the outcry that followed, Pusztai was forced to retire.

A special peer review was called by members of the Royal Society, an exclusive club of 1,200 British and Commonwealth fellows. A pillar of the British scientific establishment, the society included many of the scientists who had pioneered biotechnology. They quickly declared that Pusztai's experiments were "flawed in many respects of design, execution, and analysis." - p. 112

However, when Pusztai's research was published in The Lancet, it showed that there really was an issue to merit more research. (The Lancet editor Richard Horton wrote that the published paper "provides a report that deserves further attention.") Prior to publication, some British scientists had tried to stop The Lancet from publishing Pusztai's work at all. Horton sent Pusztai's work to six reviewers - "twice the normal number" - and a majority agreed it should be published. As you can see here, it's not just biotech companies that fiercely fight against anyone who comes out with even preliminary findings that show problems with biotech.

GMOs in Mexican Corn
Then there's the story of Chapela and Quist and their findings in the corn of Oaxaca, Mexico.

In their report in the scientific journal Nature, the Berkeley researchers, Ignacio Chapela and David Quist, had described two separate events. The first was the cross-pollination of an unidentified transgenic corn with a local criollo (a variety cultivated by local farmers without interbreeding with modern varieties, known genetically as a landrace). The second event was more complicated and raised the possibility of far greater consequences. The researchers reported that the genes from the genetically modified pollen were now unstable in the genome of the criollo, implying that these wandering genes might produce all manner of unexpected and destructive results. - p. 160

The biotech lobby group BIO immediately tried to discredit the article, saying Chapela and Quist were antibiotech and that their ideology trumped their ability to do unbiased research. Other scientists spoke out against Chapela and Quist too.

On the day their paper was published, Internet probiotech forums carried immediate demands for the paper to be retracted. One of these forums, AgBioView, with an e-mail list of thirty-seven hundred scientists, led the attack... An early criticism came from a "Mary Murphy" who attacked Chapela for being on the board of directors at Pesticide Action Network, a group trying to reduce the use of pesticides, and so, claimed Murphy, "not exactly what you'd call an unbiased writer."

Murphy's posting was followed by a message from "Andura Smetacek." Smetacek had appeared on AgBioView before in a rant about Losey's experiments with monarch butterflies and how green groups were using a PR firm to create scare campaigns about transgenic crops... A British antibiotech activist traced Murphy and Smetacek's electronic personas to the Bivings Group, a Washington, D.C., public relations company that had Monsanto as a client, but Bivings denied any knowledge of either name. - p. 168-169

When the backlash came, Nature "disavowed the legitimacy of the research... It was the first time in the 133-year history of Nature that the London-based journal had withdrawn support for an article in defiance of its authors and their referees."

I think we should take the backlash against Huber with a grain of salt, knowing that is the norm that there is ALWAYS backlash when anything comes out against biotech, whether the antibiotech findings are true or not. And, sadly, it seems that the backlash sometimes serves to stifle the debate and research, which is exactly the opposite of what we need to do once troubling preliminary findings are reported.

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Question about food-grade corn (4.00 / 3)

This statement is from the Purdue article:

Wheat and food-grade corn are non-GMO crops, meaning that mycotoxin development in these crops would not be directly linked to glyphosate usage or interactions.

I did not realize the food-grade corn is non-GMO. Has anyone seen data about the percentages of GMO corn that makes it into the human food supply? And is high fructose corn syrup made from food-grade, non-GMO corn?


I think this is clever - or sloppy - language (4.00 / 2)
we eat plenty of GMO corn in our food. I think he's referring to sweet corn, which we eat as corn on the cob. That isn't GMO. The rest of it is.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
Caution, Jill. (4.00 / 2)
At least some commercial sweet table corn is Bt.

I agree with Jill about the terminology, though. Quaker corn meal, FritoLay chips, tacos, cold cereals, isn't that all from food-grade corn? But it isn't sweet corn or supersweet corn.

I don't know if some table corn is RoundupReady, but this goes to Jill's "clever - or sloppy - language" comment. What does the report mean by "directly linked"? Although a particular crop is not RoundupReady, couldn't Roundup herbicides be used on that field anyway, either in that same season or other seasons?

Also, I do not know if table corn grown by home gardeners is GE. Perhaps not, but Huber's letter isn't about that.

I haven't read the report yet, but Ann's citations do not bode well for its credibility.

AnnN, corn syrup and HFCS always have been made from field corn, now mostly GMO.


[ Parent ]
table corn (4.00 / 1)
My use of "table corn" probably created a wrong impression. I certainly would include commercial sweet corn that is frozen or canned.

[ Parent ]
corn (4.00 / 2)
Both field corn and sweet corn can be gm.

Field corn can be either Bt or herbicide tolerant. It is used mainly for animal feed, ethanol and processed foods.

Sweet corn can be Bt. About 10% of sweet corn destined for fresh consumption in the US is Bt. Bt sweet corn is NOT allowed for processed markets due to the fact that Europe has not approved any sweet corn varieties and it would be problematic if it showed up in exports to Europe.

No GM corn is marketed towards home gardeners.  


[ Parent ]
Thanks for the clarification. (4.00 / 1)
When I said "table corn", I thought I was just being careless. Always good to have facts.

[ Parent ]
Do you know (4.00 / 1)
Why isn't table corn GE for herbicide tolerance or herbicide resistance?

[ Parent ]
there is Bt Sweet Corn (4.00 / 3)
As previously posted, there is Bt sweet corn on the market. Only for fresh markets. Syngenta, not Monsanto, produces it.

[ Parent ]
yum (4.00 / 2)
that's news to me actually. Not good news, either. Why would anyone want to eat something with Bt in it????

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
earlier this evening (4.00 / 2)
I actually thought about your reaction to this, and I actually knew exactly what your reaction would be! Why is that when we find out something we didn't know, it is so often bad news?

I'm grateful Joanne's here to keep us all sane. How bad can things be if one of us has wobbly lambs and homemade butter?


[ Parent ]
yum (4.00 / 1)
that's news to me actually. Not good news, either. Why would anyone want to eat something with Bt in it????

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
Purdue op-ed (4.00 / 5)
The Purdue op-ed in the Food Safety News article is the same one linked to in Monsanto's response, and even Monsanto didn't claim that it debunked Huber, or refuted him, or claimed that Huber is full of baloney. It's a response, and that's all it is. Plausible reasoning? Sure, because mostly it says the same thing Huber said - we need more research.

Before getting to details, let's note this comment from the Food Safety News thread:

Considering that Purdue's "Glyphosate Stewardship Working Group" is sponsored by BASF, Bayer, Dow AgroSciences, DuPont, Illinois Soybean Association, Indiana Soybean Board, Monsanto, Sygenta, USDA-CSREES NCIPM Competitive Grants Program, and Valent USA..., can anyone be surprised that these scientists would dismiss out of hand any claims made by Dr. Huber?

It's also not surprising that this group of scientists can get away with challenging Dr. Huber's assertions about increased plant disease and decreased crop yields, given the fact that USDA has refused to publicize such studies published in Europe, so that American farmers wouldn't know about the bad news concerning this technology. See "Scientists Reveal Glyphosate Poisons Crops and Soil GM Meltdown Continues: Scientists go public on devastating ecological impacts of Roundup Ready cropping systems while USDA keeps mum"...

Follow the money? Keep the secrets, kill the messenger? What did Huber write?

To properly evaluate these factors, we request access to the relevant USDA data.

Seems reasonable to me, how about you?

I don't know what to make of the fact that the op-ed never mentions Huber by name, he isn't even a co-author of any of the papers cited. Weird. Also, I don't know what to make of the comment about food-grade corn. How is that relevant to field corn? Huber didn't write anything about Silver Queen or Silver King.

From the op-ed:

Despite the potential for herbicides to increase disease levels in certain plants, plant pathologists have NOT observed a widespread increase in susceptibility to plant diseases in glyphosate-resistant corn and soybean.

Dr. Huber is a plant pathologist. Hmm. From Huber,

The organism is prolific in plants infected with two pervasive diseases that are driving down yields and farmer income-sudden death syndrome (SDS) in soy, and Goss' wilt in corn. The pathogen is also found in the fungal causative agent of SDS (Fusarium solani fsp glycines).

Corn and soy, right? Or did I miss something?

Back to the op-ed:

The claim that herbicides, such as glyphosate, can make plants more susceptible to disease is not entirely without merit.

and

The claim that plant disease has "skyrocketed" due to glyphosate usage is also unfounded.

Don't know where that last came from, Huber didn't write it. He was pretty dire about a constellation of observations, but he didn't write that. In any case, the writers don't claim no increased disease, they say published research linking it to glyphos is limited (entirely reasonable, need more research) and they list other causes, also reasonable - let's sort it out.

I could go on, but would there be a point to the effort? As I wrote previously, the preliminary nature of the research cited in Huber's letter might well have made it difficult for Vilsack to resist the deregulation train, but nothing in the Purdue op-ed challenges Huber's point - we need to get this sorted out ASAP. Above all, I recommend caution in assigning more substance to the paper than is there.


Good points! (4.00 / 4)
Count, excellent comments. I only had time for a quick skim of it, but what struck me in the Purdue response was the sheer volume of wiggling involved. It seemed to boil down to "there could be a lot of things happening here, and no one has come up with conclusive proof."  

I'd encourage you to re-post this comment on the Jill's dailykos diary as well:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

Protect our farms - Stop NAIS!  Go to http://FarmAndRanchFreedom.org for more information.


[ Parent ]
ASAP (4.00 / 1)
ASAP means "before we deregulate any more crops"!

[ Parent ]
Huber or his letter to USDA not mentioned (4.00 / 1)
I agree with Count - I think that the fact that this response from Purdue refers neither to Huber nor his letter to the USDA is potentially significant. The Purdue response criticises the likes of Jeffrey Smith for 'sensationalism', but not Huber directly. Monsanto alone is presenting this is as unequivocally debunking Huber.

One concern I have (which I have seen raised elsewhere by pro-GM commentators) is that Huber refers to evidence of abortion in cattle following the consumption of wheatlage, also known as wholecrop silage. But no commercial wheat is resistant to glyphosate - yet. So I am a little confused about that statement, and how that evidence relates to Roundup. Any thoughts?

Does anyone know if the USDA has actually acknowledged receipt of Huber's letter?  


[ Parent ]
wheatlage (0.00 / 0)
...this goes to Jill's "clever - or sloppy - language" comment. What does the report mean by "directly linked"? Although a particular crop is not RoundupReady, couldn't Roundup herbicides be used on that field anyway, either in that same season or other seasons?

I made that statement with regard to table corn, but I should have included wheat by the same reasoning. Huber wrote

High concentrations of the pathogen were confirmed on the wheatlege, which likely had been under weed management using glyphosate.

With regard to USDA acknowledging receipt of the letter, I don't know about that but Monsanto wrote

When contacted, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) coordinator of the National Plant Disease Recovery System (NPDRS) {Huber's USDA counterparty} was unfamiliar with information or research about the alleged pathogen and was not contacted by Huber regarding the alleged pathogen discovery.

This doesn't answer your question, but it seems relevant.


[ Parent ]
relevance (0.00 / 0)
Were I Secretary Vilsack, my first response to a letter from the APS coordinator would have been to speak with the USDA coordinator.

[ Parent ]
one concern I have... (0.00 / 0)
You are right to focus on this question, I think. I fear that wheat will be the next crop deregulated. Huber's concerns, any uncertainties caused by his letter, and APS concerns need a very public discussion before that happens.

[ Parent ]
In 2009 USDA, Canada and Australia (4.00 / 1)
moved to release RR wheat for commercial production. I can't remember if the info and discussion in the original diary about Huber's letter provided any dates for the study using wheatlage, but if the study was being done to determine whether or not RR wheat and/or wheatlage was safe to consume then the wheatlage would definately have been RR.

But unless we can see the report of the study itself there's no way to know.

Normal people scare me.... But not as much as I scare them.


[ Parent ]
And for the DailyKos Punctuation Police (4.00 / 1)
please note that the Purdue article uses BOLD within their article - is that equivalent to using an exclamation mark! for determination of whether or not an entire article is valid? :-)

One other thing I noticed in the Purdue article is that they cited two studies done in 2011 (Zerbe, Smith) and then made the comment that "evidence to support these claims has neither been presented or evaluated". Given that we are only 2 months into 2011 is that adequate time for Zerbe and Smith to present their evidence? Purdue's spin makes it sound as if the scientific community is being by-passed. I hope that these studies get shared with the non-scientific community.


[ Parent ]
studies? (0.00 / 0)
Leah Zerbe is a blogger.

Roundup Red Alert! What You Need to Know About the Pesticide Poised to "Push Us All Off of the Cliff"

Jeffrey Smith is the Seeds of Deception guy. The URL cited in the Purdue op-ed is broken.


[ Parent ]
Zerbe and Smith (0.00 / 0)
In my opinion, it's more Zerbe and Smith that the Purdue piece disagrees with than with Huber. The citation appeared in a Monsanto blurb that referenced Huber, but that doesn't make the article anti-Huber.

[ Parent ]
Coming awake (0.00 / 0)
Jill, I think my thinking about the Purdue piece was clouded by the spin you put on it. Why did you write that it debunked Huber? How does it debunk Huber? Why did you write that the op-ed says Huber is full of baloney?

Please explain.


[ Parent ]
Couldn't agree more.... (4.00 / 2)
At the risk of repeating Count's arguments, Monsanto's statement appears to presents the Purdue Extension paper as a direct response to Huber's letter to the USDA - http://www.monsanto.com/newsvi...

Yet the more I read the Purdue Extension paper, the more I believe that it is not related to Don Huber's letter at all, but instead was written to counter the 'blogs' of Leah Zerbe and Jeffery Smith, who both cite Don Huber's earlier research on Roundup and nutrient lock-up, as well as similar research by Robert Kremer.

On top of this, to reiterate what Count says above, Monsanto's statement assures us that that an unnamed "coordinator" whom Monsanto approached at the USDA was "unfamiliar with information or research about the alleged pathogen and was not contacted by Huber regarding the alleged pathogen discovery." Forgive me for being penickity, but I'd prefer to rely on an official statement from the USDA from a named source (ideally Tom Vilsack) in direct response to the issues raised in Huber's letter.


[ Parent ]
Thanks for the explanation (4.00 / 1)
I started searching for Zerbe and discovered the same thing. Duh-- It didn't occur to me that Purdue would quote statements made by bloggers/journalists in one paragraph and then reference scientific studies in the next.

I did find this link to an abstract of an article entitled Glyphosate Formulations Induce Apoptosis and Necrosis in Human Umbilical, Embryonic, and Placental Cells:

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdfplu...

Unfortunately there is a subscription fee to read the whole article.


[ Parent ]
attack (4.00 / 1)
You state that "any time a scientist criticizes biotech, they are attacked"

It is equally true that any time a scientist supports biotech, they are "attacked". Check out the CFS Web site

Attacked is the wrong word. There are legitimate difference of opinion in the scientific world. It is part of the scientific process for a scientists or group of scientists to respond to the work or conclusion of another scientists with their own analysis. The Purdue folks did not attack Huber - they disagred with him.

What rules in these settings is "scientific consensus". A nebulous term but one that focuses on the majority opinions of scientists.  


CFS (4.00 / 1)
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?

To your point about disagreeing with Huber - it seems to have entered the discussion as disagreeing with him, as evidenced by the fact that someone at Monsanto apparently thinks it supports Monsanto, but I think the "disagreement" is weak.


[ Parent ]
Center for Food Safety nt (4.00 / 2)


"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
False equivalency (4.00 / 2)
The two are not equal. The attack against anyone who is publishes anything that questions or criticizes biotech is MUCH bigger than the attack that goes the other way. And much more personal. A scientist can get his or her career ruined by criticizing biotech, but not for promoting it.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
Science (4.00 / 3)
like most other human endevours, is political no matter how you look at it.

Normal people scare me.... But not as much as I scare them.

[ Parent ]
Absolutely (4.00 / 2)
You know what really blows me away? I was reading the book 1491 and they go throw the discoveries of early humans in the Americas and all that... there was one guy who was SO tied to his beliefs that even after he was proven wrong he kept insisting on being right. This was someone who was very senior and well respected and all... but to the day he died, never gave in that he was wrong. At one point he was at a conference that was about the findings he had refused to accept. He stood up and made a presentation with absolutely NO mention of those findings. I'd have to look up the specifics. But anyway, the degree to which scientists can let egos get in the way can be REALLY silly. And then there are the people who are just paid shills... you know, climate denying scientists paid for by Exxon Mobil, etc.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
stubbornness (4.00 / 2)
That doesn't happen only in fields like anthropology and archaeology, where beliefs about human origins and relationships can sway thinking, it also happens in the humorously called "hard" sciences. I don't know about chemistry, but I know for sure it has happened in physics. Like you, I'd have to look up the specifics, but there was a case of someone very senior, very respected, who just could not accept that the world did not work the way he thought it did.

[ Parent ]
That door swings both ways (4.00 / 1)
There are scientists who have lost funding due to their anti anthopogenic global warming, and Oregon State Climatologist George Taylor was forced into retirement because he spoke out against it. This article on Watts Up With That climate blog gives some details on Taylor, his work and his ousting.

Normal people scare me.... But not as much as I scare them.

[ Parent ]
Exactly... (4.00 / 2)
It's like that book I read / reviewed here last year, (the Cardello one?), which tried to pass off the corporate hack Rick Berman and Michael Jacobson of CSPI as 'the two extreme sides of the crazy coin' in food debates.

Ummm, no.  Not even close.


[ Parent ]
Those who agree with Huber, may not come forward (4.00 / 1)
I know of a prominent diagnostic large-animal vet who happens to agree with Huber about RR crops (even has a photo of the pathogen he wrote about) but probably won't come forward until a study is published. Politics and research dollars at stake tend to muzzle Huber's supporters at this point. But despite this the off-record support of Huber IS there and wields considerable power. That's something Monsanto and Biotech can't put a gag on. Imho, Monsanto's lame efforts to discredit Huber at this point has only served to rekindle the anti-GMO movement and gain more support for labeling GE/GM foods from a much wider audience (ie, the MSNBC poll showing 96% of 40K people support labeling).

[ Parent ]
may not come forward (4.00 / 1)
That's half of the conversation, in a way.

My position from my first comment in Jill's first diary about this has been that Huber's letter should be taken seriously because he wrote as the institutional voice of the APS half of the National Plant Disease Recovery System. If that isn't true - if he actually wrote as some kind of lone wolf - he's much more vulnerable to attack. I think it's important to note that, at least so far, his colleagues at APS, and especially his committee mates, have not disowned or refuted him.

Monsanto needs to be careful in its response to avoid attacking APS and NPDRS, so the response has been personalized - focus on Huber, not the institutions. Of course that's classic technique, which Jill has written about.

The Final Environmental Impact Statement contains a section in which comments are grouped and summarized. Before Huber wrote this letter, he had responded in the official comment period with most of his concerns, but not about the newly discovered pathogen. The person in charge of that section of the comments identified him (dismissed him?) as "a retired academic."


[ Parent ]
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