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Cancun Climate Treaty "Hopeless"

by: Jill Richardson

Sun Oct 03, 2010 at 09:00:00 AM PDT


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There are plenty of headlines about how pointless the climate summit in Cancun is going to be. The only questions that have yet to be answered are: How exactly will the failure occur, and which nations will be most at fault? Will the failure involve a really lousy, watered-down agreement, or no agreement at all?

More below.

Jill Richardson :: Cancun Climate Treaty "Hopeless"
I particularly enjoyed this article from the Toronto Sun that defends Canada's innocence as a "corrupt petrostate" (it's crime is the Alberta tarsands) but then ends with this:

Let's emerge from our long Kyoto stupor and recall we are a sovereign nation and no one decides our energy policy but us.

If we want to lower emissions significantly - and every federal party, to varying degrees, claims it does - we must abandon these useless UN gabfests at the world's five-star resorts and decide on the following unglamorous issues here in Canada:

First, who, exactly, should be in charge of putting a price on carbon emissions and determining what that price will be - the federal government, or the provinces?

Second, which level of government ultimately controls fossil fuel resources and is responsible for determining emission reductions and enforcing them?

Third, since reducing emissions will disproportionately impact on Alberta and Saskatchewan, who is responsible for paying the costs - them, or all Canadians?

Without first making these decisions in Canada - and without a national understanding and acceptance that lowering our emissions at the rate the UN wants means lowering our standard of living by paying much more than we do even now for energy, our continued participation in the Kyoto-to-Cancun process is pointless.

And you know, if Canada was actually going to do all of that, I'd say hallelujah. Here's another Canadian article, this one less substantive, but including the factoid that Ban Ki-Moon "doubts a comprehensive deal will be struck at a conference in Mexico later this year."

There's a more substantive piece on the politics behind Cancun here. Still nothing terribly hopeful... apparently a bunch of countries are in talks now and trying to come to some sort of agreement, but that doesn't mean the agreement will actually solve the climate crisis. To be honest, the only sort of agreement I could see the U.S. signing onto right now, with our government, is one that would completely suck.

Here's a piece about China's hope for an agreement in Cancun, which is nice, but still not terribly promising. And one thing that isn't being said is that China might be the biggest emitter of greenhouse gases, but an awful lot of the stuff manufactured there then goes to other countries where it is sold and used. So it's not just China that has a problem. Reducing China's emissions will also involve people in the rest of the world changing their lifestyles (i.e. buying less shit made in China that they don't even bloody need).

And, for one last depressing article to read, here's one about how all of the world leaders are "frankly in a deadlock" on climate change negotiations.

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I predict a failure (4.00 / 3)
The only reasonable way to get compliance out of dirty countries is to put a carbon tariff on imports from those countries (us included).  

yep (4.00 / 1)
it has to cost money to pollute. AND we need to be honest about measuring pollution. AND we need real investment in clean energy. AND we can't have bullshit carbon offsets. (True offsets are fine, but bullshit ones are no good.)

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
Since inventing an alternate economy (0.00 / 0)
is a huge task, I can only agree.

Watch our Corporate Overlords shoot down any politician who even tries to institute any sort of tariffs, though.

You do understand that Free Trade is our new religion, you heretic?

"If God were to appear to starving people, he would not dare to appear in any other form than food." - Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
I would hazard a guess that deadlocks in climate change negotiations (4.00 / 3)
are all about 2 things -

1 - implementing them as many would like would tank economies that are already pretty friable

2 - the dustups are about who's going to make the most money in taxes and fees, not about who's going to 'save the planet'

On the economic thing, my mom used to always say that if all the nations' economies were really hooked into each other and dependant on each other, then no one would dare go to war because they'd destroy their own economy. Kind of an economic mutually assured destruction scenario like we had with nuclear weapons during the cold war.

The problem with that, as I think we've all found out, is that, now that our economies are all hooked in together, when one country's stock market has a hickup, it ripples all around the world.

The developed countries stop buying from countries like China, and their economy tanks, it'll take us and everyone else right down with them. And while China does make a lot of stuff that people don't really need, they also make a lot of stuff that's absolutely vital to maintaining our lives at the level that we've become accostomed to.

Personally, I wouldn't mind chopping wood, making my own clothing, and homesteading in general to survive. But most people don't want that lifestyle. Think about how many things that you have that you actually do need, then think about how many of those things are made outside of the USA (not just China, but anywhere outside the USA).

Normal people scare me.... But not as much as I scare them.


Most people, globally, actually have few choices (0.00 / 0)
what they want doesn't enter into it. Most people have no landbase.

Most Americans still haven't figured that out.

Our economies are indeed all hooked into each other, more and more all the time. But without any kind of willingness to ensure good protections for the environment (and we are part of the environment), the most rapacious economy undercuts everybody else...which disrupts all of their economies, which makes it even harder to get people to buy ethically.

Downward spiral. The rich get richer and the poor not only get poorer, but more numerous.

Your #2 is absolutely correct. #1 is somewhat flawed in that you aren't addressing just why these economies are so fragile, the history of any of that. It doesn't come out of nowhere. The USA had a lot to do with a lot of this. We helped fund the engineering of a lot of economic collapses.

And people got rich. Not too many people, though.

The other option is that everyone can be doing well, but some people could have been doing better.

That is the problem for the oligarchy; they are being prevented from doing better, at the cost of just about everybody else. They don't go for that.

They sell this to various nations with the argument that the free market, if perfected, will be a rising tide that lifts all boats.

Right before the leftists protesters start getting carted off to the torture prisons.

And of course, the free market is never, never perfected. It's always the fault of anybody who wants any kinds of protections, that we are not all rich now.

I appreciate what you say about how you'd be happy chopping wood, carrying water. So would many. But if they take away your land, you're screwed.

And it wasn't that long ago that protesters were blacklisted professionally here.

And now, we have raids on peace activism groups. Right before the election. How quaint.

"If God were to appear to starving people, he would not dare to appear in any other form than food." - Mahatma Gandhi


[ Parent ]
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