Old McDonald Got In Trouble For His Interns

Why bother? (4.00 / 2)

Why bother with interns? Who needs apprentice farmers? Farming is not a viable occupational track, right?

Mary Alice Johnson, ALM Organic Farm (Sooke, British Columbia), operates an apprenticeship program.

In a Deconstructing Dinner interview, she said (about 29 minutes in)

We have a pretty serious apprenticeship program here, people come late February - early March and stay 'til the end of October, and by the time they leave they really can pretty much run the farm. We give them responsibilities, like last year we gave Bill - he's from England, but he has a work visa here and he's really interested in farming - we gave him the job of connecting with the restaurants. Always Marika had done it, Marika who's my partner now, she came as an apprentice 7 years ago and about 3 years ago we got into profit sharing - but she always worked with the restaurants and she's great, so she trained Bill to do that.

One thing that's nice to say is, it's always sold before it's picked, which is why we need new farmers. We don't need people to help us market, particularly, we need more farmers in this area.

For her farm, a produce farm, demand outstrips available supply. The area needs more farmers to meet demand.

iTunes link for the Deconstructing Dinner page. This podcast is Conscientious Cooks VII from 3/14/10.

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by: count @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 06:14:06 AM UTC

In the future... (4.00 / 2)

Crops will be genetically engineered to harvest and pack themselves.  They'll even call you when they're ready to be picked up!  Now if only it wasn't for those st00pid environmentalists getting in the way...

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by: JayinPhiladelphia @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 06:17:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The issue with interns (4.00 / 3)

I think is not the fact that the farm has them, but that they don't pay them, or if they give them a stipend, that's considered wages and the farms are probably not witholding taxes, or paying federal and state unemployment comp, state workers comp, etc.

From what I understand, a lot of farms using interns, even though they educate them, they're also using them as workers, which, unless the interns are actual independant contractors, are subject to the wage/labor laws that any other business employee is subject to.

I offer internships here on my farm, but I make sure that anyone doing an internship here meets every single one of the state's requirements for an independant contractor, (not a construction or landscaping contractor, the labor laws allow people to work for other people doing just about any kind of work, but there are strict benchmarks that you have to hit and if you miss one, you're considered an employee, not an independant). I would think that California's labor laws would be pretty similar to Oregon's, so if a farm in Cali were to operate an internship like I have mine set up, they should have no problem.

The big problem with the way I have my program set up, is that, it's not too condusive to someone who wants to get cheap help on their farm. It's also not condusive to people looking for summer work on a farm. I've had a lot of interest in my internship program, but no takers yet. Well there was a gal in Portland who I think would have come out, but she's having to deal with a situation with her parents and I don't know if she'll intern or not.

Normal people scare me.... But not as much as I scare them.

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by: JoanneRigutto @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 14:15:21 PM UTC

a contrary possibility (4.00 / 1)

When I was in grad school, every grad student was required to teach (work) "as part of the education." That was true in the science and engineering department, and it might have been a university-wide policy, but I don't have sure memory of that. Because every student was required to do it and because the requirement was part of the education, stipends carried no state or federal tax consequences, either to us or the school. That's how it was explained to us then.

I'm not sure this observation has relevance to this discussion because it seems like long ago in a galaxy far, far away. For one thing, a university isn't a profit making institution. Also, things could have changed a lot since then.

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by: count @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 16:05:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Here's some information from OSU (4.00 / 2)

about farm internships, wage/labor and tax laws. There was a short course for farms about the subject offered by the college last winter. Agriculture Labor Management Series offered in Southern Oregon

Here's what's on the page about farm internships in Oregon -
Internships

Many small specialty farms rely on intern or apprentice labor. These interns are typically young North Americans, although apprentices come from all over the world. The apprentices usually do not have the same work experience or skill level as farm workers; in fact, some have never spent significant time on a farm. Others may have worked on other farms and seek to broaden their experience. Interns are typically housed at the farm, and in exchange for room, board and a small stipend, gain valuable farm skills and the chance to experience the farming lifestyle. This exchange has been a valuable source of affordable labor for small producers, and an important "training ground" for next generations of farmers. Despite the success of these programs, they are rarely in compliance with state wage law. Recently, in the Willamette Valley, a former intern filed a wage claim against a farmer and won payment of back wages. Wage law states that if an intern works independently and contributes to the profitability of the farm, that intern is an employee entitled to minimum wage compensation. One solution is to pay interns minimum wage for work performed and then charge the intern market rates for rent, contributions toward groceries, and fees for educational programs. In order to comply with the law, all appropriate tax and employment forms must be filed, as well as a written work agreement between intern and farmer. Successfully and legally managing employees be it interns or farm workers, represents a difficult and complicated aspect of running a business. Through the two courses on labor management, the OSU Extension Small Farms Program will provide producers with knowledge and information to more successfully manage their workers.

I was also over at Rogue Farm Corps participating farms page. Most of those farms are either paying minimum wage for work, or a small stipend. Farms are allowed to pay wages or a stipend and then deduct most or all of what's paid for on farm housing, which might get you away from witholding state and federal income taxes, but I wouldn't think it would get you out of the requirement to carry state workers comp (in Oregon this is figured at a percentage of the gross wages, for construction the rate is figured at a percentage of every $100 in wages/sallary paid). I would think that a farm would also have to pay something on state and federal unemployment comp, maybe social security too?

Recently a farm intern succesfully sued a farm that he or she had interned at and won damages from the farm in the form of back wages. I don't know if BOLI, Oregon's Bureau of Labor and Industries fined the farm also.

On the stipend issue, I was over at the IRS website and it looks like that if a stipend is paid, then the intern (in most cases) would receive a form 1099 and be responsible for paying their own income and social security taxes on the money if their adjusted gross income was high enough over the year to bump them into a tax bracket.

That's why the internship program I have here is run strictly as an educational program. Interns are not expected to work any set number of hours and are expected to determine what they will do, when they will do it, what they want to learn, and how much information and what skills they would like to aquire. Just like going to college or a vocational school. You pick your classes and I determine when I'll teach the class, if or when you show up is completely up to you, the intern.  

Normal people scare me.... But not as much as I scare them.

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by: JoanneRigutto @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 17:07:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

More info - (4.00 / 2)

Excluded Employees from oregonlaws.org. Also, for reference, Oregon Minimum Employment Requirements

Normal people scare me.... But not as much as I scare them.

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by: JoanneRigutto @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 17:45:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Great information (4.00 / 1)

All that makes sense, doesn't it? Although I couldn't muster a strong argument against that particular system in a profit making environment, I still can appreciate the desirability of a simpler arrangement.

If the British Columbia woman said anything about this, it didn't get into the podcast.

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by: count @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 18:46:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks Joanne (4.00 / 2)

One thing though - when I was going through college I could take any number of unpaid summer internships that would give me college credit instead of cash. And I would learn a lot and build my resume. So why can't a farm do the same thing? Seems unfair. I mean - it's not OK to have free labor if you're making them just pick strawberries all day long, but if you're truly teaching them how to farm, I think that the law should be more equal between the rules governing office jobs and the rules for farmers.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

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by: Jill Richardson @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 18:47:01 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I agree with you on the free labor vs paid labor (4.00 / 4)

one thing perhaps that people looking at the pros and cons of paid labor vs unpaid is that unpaid interns really are students, and don't make a business all that much money. Sometimes they can cost you money as you have to give up your productive time to teach the interns.

Having gone through 2 apprentiships in the tile and stone trades, as well as having had to manage untrained or minimally skilled personel on construction crews, I'm well aware of the risks and expenses in time to train them on the fly.

Regular farm workers are skilled labor, I don't care whether it's picking strawberries, harvesting some other crop, running a tractor, etc.. I would expect a business to pay those people. It'd be like me hiring a journeyman tile setter who I could give a work order to and say 'take care of this and come back for the next work order when you're done'. You just can't do that with an apprentice or intern, they don't know how to do the work.

Normal people scare me.... But not as much as I scare them.

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by: JoanneRigutto @ Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 19:02:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]