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What about an added sweetener tax instead?

by: Eddie C

Mon Mar 08, 2010 at 21:02:40 PM PST


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( - promoted by JayinPortland)

Once again the debate over a "soda tax" is going strong here in New York and throughout the entire nation. The pros and cons of this tax are complicated but something needs to be done. Except what is being floated around here and by many governments in a nation of drinkable disasters is really both a natural sweetener tax and a promotion of artificial sweeteners.

The embattled Governor David Paterson proposed it last year as an "Obesity Tax" before public outcry temporally crushed it. The outcry was over this tax being a regressive tax that poor people would be forced to pay with little thought about parents telling their children "No you cannot have 87¢ for a Coke but you can have 75¢ for a Diet Coke." When diet sodas are exempt, since budget conscious shoppers will find drinks with artificial sweeteners and other chemicals to be money saving choices, it translates to government preaching better living through chemicals.

This tax seemed dead until Michael Bloomberg began presenting it as what it really is, an income generator. Now with Bloomberg's endorsement this tax is getting the "full court press" again and Paterson is holding multiple meeting on taxing sugary drinks. Meanwhile there are dueling TV ads here now but little thought about what is being taxed to curtail empty calories through a straw. In this battle of interest groups  is anyone actually thinking?

Eddie C :: What about an added sweetener tax instead?
Of course diet drinks might sound harmless enough but a study in 2005 claimed that diet soda drinkers not only gained weight;

The findings come from eight years of data collected by Sharon P. Fowler, MPH, and colleagues at the University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio. Fowler reported the data at this week's annual meeting of the American Diabetes Association in San Diego.

"What didn't surprise us was that total soft drink use was linked to overweight and obesity," Fowler tells WebMD. "What was surprising was when we looked at people only drinking diet soft drinks, their risk of obesity was even higher."

In fact, when the researchers took a closer look at their data, they found that nearly all the obesity risk from soft drinks came from diet sodas.

Bloomberg for all of his faults does seem to make an honest effort towards improving New Yorkers health and new sources of income that can be put to many good uses are desperately needed. Since there is no evidence to be found of anyone mentioning the drawbacks of promoting diet soda, public health policy being set by myopic calorie counting could be an oversight.

Since this new tax seems to be taking roots all over the public debate should move beyond "loss of small business" vs. "it worked for cigarettes."


There is another serious issue here.  As you probably know from reading soda ingredients this is not really a sugar tax, this is a high fructose corn syrup tax. HFCS is rarely scrutinized and has never once been mentioned by the politicians in this debate. Mayor Bloomberg should consider the part played by the federal government in making soda cheaper than milk, juice and even bottled water. Federal subsidies play a big part in fast food restaurants offering bottomless soda cups.

While both sugar and HFCS represent empty calories, considering whether a substance so heavily subsidized should be curtailed by a state tax can give you a headache. The fact that a portion of our federal payroll tax is devoted to making soda as cheap as possible isn't really an argument against paying the state so we can consume it but it seems sort of crazy. Local politicians addressing what Washington has been doing to promote obesity would seem to make better sense than using their positions so that voters will pay once to make soda cheap and again to make it expensive.

This tax to save Americans from their obesity has been floated around on the fed level, even endorsed by our Diet Coke loving president. But since lobbyist make all the decisions there the best we can hope for is federally subsidized sodas that are taxed by our states and cities.  

Gov. Bill Ritter of Colorado signed bills to tax candy and soda last month and Illinois has found a sweet source of state revenue. California is considering legislation and Mayor Nutter of Philadelphia wants twice as much as Mayor Bloomberg.

But this exemption for diet drinks is troublesome. Even if studies like this one are exaggerating;

In support of this possibility, a recent study found that rodents fed the artificial sweetener saccharin lost the ability to accurately regulate calorie intake and gained weight. Another concern is that habitual consumption of artificial-sweetened beverages may "infantilize" taste preferences, especially among children. Compared to the hyper-intense sweetness of these beverages, fruit may seem bland and vegetables may seem inedible, adversely affecting overall diet quality. Indeed, two observational studies have linked artificially sweetened beverage consumption to higher risk for obesity, cardiovascular disease and type 2 diabetes.

Even if these artificial or chemically adjusted natural calorie free sweeteners have been tested enough, as this revenue generator spreads across the nation the message from cash strapped parents to their children will be that "aspartame is good and sugar is bad" has got to be a hindrance to children developing good eating habits.

Simply taxing added sweeteners no matter what the caloric value would be the more sensible solution.  The exemption for products that contain seventy percent natural fruit juices should be for 100 percent natural juices because 29 percent HFCS apple juice will become an overnight sensation.

If the success of the cigarette tax is going to be quoted over and over;

"It's an interesting experiment and one that's worth trying," said Marion Nestle, professor of nutrition, food studies and public health at New York University. "The theory behind this approach is that it worked for cigarettes, and that soft drinks are demonstrably related to obesity in children."

Than the cost to consumers should be set somewhere much higher than just some nickel and dime tax. A pack of cigarettes in NYC cost over ten bucks. One penny per ounce is just going to be government income where many people are concerned and will only modify the behavior of people on tight budgets.      

Tonight this new local tax has come up everywhere. The NBC Nightly News video covered how this tax will reduce American's weight and Katie Couric pointed out that New Yorkers favor this new tax while covering the war on soft drinks bubbling out of our schools.

Both of these stories mentioned a public relations victory for the soda industry because they played a role in reducing soda consumption in schools. President Clinton was the real player and he gave a fun answer when an American Beverage Association representative tried to get him to make a commitment against a soda tax;

"It's dumb for me to get involved in (the tax) debate when I can save God knows how many kids lives by making other agreements."

I'll get involved. I think a soda tax is good but not as a promotion of artificial sweeteners. How many years was sodium cyclamate considered safe? Not to mention that this government lost the battle to ban Saccharin while others succeeded. So why promote the unnatural?  

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That's why I stopped using Sweet 'n Low long ago... (4.00 / 4)
And I even phased out Equal & Splenda. It may seem harmless, but in reality these artificial sweeteners are turning out to be quite frightening. Dare I say "Franken-Sugar"?

I guess, as always, it's best to just stick to the real thing. So now, I only buy raw cane sugar, organic/local honey, and organic blue agave nectar (my new fave!). Oh, and occasionally I'll do the maple syrup, too.  

Act on Principles and make equality happen.


[ Parent ]
Organic blue agave nectar? (4.00 / 4)
That sounds so great. I wonder if I can get any here. I know where I can get some in the New York Botanical Garden but they would get very upset with me.  

[ Parent ]
Lol... (4.00 / 4)
I know where I can get some in the New York Botanical Garden but they would get very upset with me.

:)

Check your local coops or health foods stores, we get the stuff in jugs in the bulk foods aisles around here.


[ Parent ]
I guess since I'm in The Southwest... (4.00 / 4)
And pretty close to Mexico, it's easy for Trader Joe's and Whole Foods to bring it up here to Las Vegas. (It's also easy to find in Southern California.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

Perhaps try a Trader Joe's in NYC, and if worse comes to worse "Whole Paycheck" probably carries it.

Act on Principles and make equality happen.


[ Parent ]
I bought a stevia plant there (4.00 / 3)
Nice tasting plant . . . .  

[ Parent ]
It's great (0.00 / 0)
and low-glycemic relative to other natural sweeteners, which is a big plus for me. I don't like it in coffee, but I love it in everything else. I've switched from Splenda to stevia, small amounts of real sugar, and agave.

[ Parent ]
I use Stevia in my tomato salads (0.00 / 0)
there's the sweet/tart of the tomatoes, and the tart from the vinegar, and then every once in a while the intense sweetness of a piece of stevia leaf.

Is it just me or does stevia taste like other artificial sweeteners to other people? I like the stevia because it's sweet without having that 'sugary' sweetness that sugar has, if that makes sense.

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." ~ John Wayne


[ Parent ]
Yes, it does (0.00 / 0)
have a kind of "artificial sweetener" feel to it, but I think that's due to the concentration of sweetness. I use stevia liquid in my coffee, agave in almost everything else. So far, I have not even seen the leaves in the stores, so have not tried them in anything.

[ Parent ]
If you like it (4.00 / 1)
you should try to get a plant. I grew it from seed last year, and I got seed to start this year too. Once it's established, as long as it doesn't freeze, it's a pretty hardy plant. I pick the leave and chop them like you would basil or any other fresh herb.

I use it almost exclusively in tomato salads for that little burst of sweetness in the occasional bite. It works pretty well with fresh basil.

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." ~ John Wayne


[ Parent ]
Note: this has been updated (4.00 / 3)
New text below the fold and I utilized Jay's use of myopic

"For Lorca, New York is a symbol of spiritual myopia" (Edwin Honig).


[ Parent ]
Cancer (4.00 / 1)
How old is that photo?

From the wiki,

In 1991, after fourteen years, the FDA formally withdrew its 1977 proposal to ban the use of saccharin, and in 2000, the U.S. Congress repealed the law requiring saccharin products to carry health warning labels.

Also,

Effective October 1, 1989, the Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment (OEHHA) of the California Environmental Protection Agency added saccharin to the list of chemicals known to the state to cause cancer, for the purposes of Proposition 65. It was delisted April 6, 2001.


[ Parent ]
The CBS video (4.00 / 4)
The school story is pretty great. Not enough and something should be done but how often do you hear about stories like this?


Watch CBS News Videos Online


I don't know how true this is (4.00 / 4)
But it is a fun read;

And now for the properties of COKE  /DIET COKE   :
1. In many states (in the USA) the highway patrol carries two gallons of coke in the truck to remove blood from the highway after a car
accident.
2. You can put a T-bone steak in a bowl of Coke and it will be gone in two days.
3. To clean a toilet: Pour a can of Coca-Cola into the toilet bowl and knobs and let the "real thing" sit for one hour, then flush clean .
The citric acid in Coke removes stains from vitreous china.
4. To remove rust spots from chrome car bumpers: Rub the bumper with a rumpled-up piece of Reynolds Wrap aluminum foil dipped in Coca-Cola.
5. To clean corrosion from car battery terminals: Pour a can of Coca-Cola over the terminals to bubble away the corrosion.
6. To loosen a rusted bolt: Apply a cloth soaked in Coke so acid in Coca-Cola can dissolve the rust.
7. To remove grease from clothes: Empty a can of coke into a load of greasy clothes, add detergent and run through a regular cycle. The Coca-Cola will help loosen grease stains.
8. It will also clean road haze from your windshield.

Must do wonders for your stomach too.  


Screw Chuck Norris... (4.00 / 4)
It looks like we need Coca Cola Facts!

[ Parent ]
You know what I meant to write (4.00 / 4)
I thought it was in there somewhere but I just read it over and forgot.

This is not a rant against Bloomberg or Paterson. Since I can find no evidence of anyone mentioning the drawbacks of promoting diet soda (and I looked real hard) it's entirely possible that they just did not think of it. This is a call for people to contact elected officials.

I was going to just post this here but now I think I will cross post this at Docudharma and Progressive Blue.  


[ Parent ]
Didn't think of it... (4.00 / 4)
I don't know, I'm thinking they probably did consider it and this is just another example of myopic calorie counting as a determinant of public health policy.  The exemptions of "diet" soda very well may be by design.

[ Parent ]
#2 is true (4.00 / 3)
i've seen it with my own eyes.
my 7th grade science teacher did that as an experiment.
the next day he strained the coke thru a mesh sieve and all that was left was the t-bone... and it had shrunk.
i have not drank coke (or pepsi or any soft drink but ginger ale since then.... and Jone's soda)
that was 40 yrs ago. imagine how many more chemicles theyve added since then!

#5 is also true. i learned that trick from a mechanic.

#6 is also true. we've loosened rusted bolts on old tractors that way. actually the bolt was so rusted the coke ate nearly the entire bolt.



come firefly-dreaming with me....


[ Parent ]
#3 (4.00 / 2)
I think I'll try #3 for the heck of the experiment, even though it means buying a can of Coke. Not that I think Coke would clean toilet bowls better than Pepsi, mind you.

I don't know if citric acid is the magic ingredient. It probabaly helps, but the operative chemical is more likely to be phosphoric acid, which is a much more effective chelating agent.

#4: after dipping the foil in the fizzy water, rub the bumper quickly, before the foil disappears.


[ Parent ]
my take on a soda tax (4.00 / 5)
I was agnostic about it until I learned how much the American Beverage Assoc was spending to lobby against it. That makes me VERY FOR a soda tax. Tax the shit out of it.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

Well, what else can we do? (4.00 / 4)
As you mentioned above, the feds won't touch this issue. For now, this has to "bubble up" from the local & state levels. And don't limit it to sodas, but other junk foods and faux "diet foods" loaded with HFCS and/or artificial sweeteners.

Act on Principles and make equality happen.

[ Parent ]
Well I take their point that empty calories in solid form (4.00 / 3)
Is at least filling, or filling to some extent.

But I wonder if the drawbacks of promoting artificial sweeteners has ever even crossed any of their minds.

I guess all we can do is inquire and present the fact that they are promoting artificial sweeteners.  

I would love to see some politician commit to investing some of the income to promote tap water. So many now think that everything but Poland springs will kill them.


[ Parent ]
tap water (4.00 / 1)
From the website of Millenium (San Francisco restaurant),

In a concerted effort to reduce recycling waste, combat high fuel charges & offer our guests an uncompromisingly high quality of drinking water, we now serve water through a Natura Tap Water Filtration System and no longer offer imported bottled mineral water. A charge of $1/seated guest affords an endless supply of fresh carbon & UV filtered water served chilled, room temperature or sparkling.

I think Baltimore water is good without special treatment.  Does San Francisco's tap water really need that much expensive TLC?


[ Parent ]
tax diet soda too (4.00 / 4)
tax all of it.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
I think the best idea is to just take everyone's money (4.00 / 1)
and have the government issue us all food that is wholesome and real. That's the way we're going with all these idiotic taxes anyway.

Perhaps we could also impose a tax on people who eat too many calories, and one on people who don't excersise enough?

Total nanny state. You're too stoopid to understand how to take care of yourself, so we'll just do it for you.

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." ~ John Wayne


But the feds already... (4.00 / 2)
...do that (take everybody's money, and give us their preferred food), in the form of corn subsidies, don't they?  Isn't that why a can of Coke is already as cheap as (if not cheaper than) a bottle of water* in the first place?

This is a way of setting things straight again, imo.  As screwy as it is, when you think about it.

Great line above from Eddie, we -

pay once to make soda cheap and again to make it expensive.

Is a tax on soda really a tax?  Or is it just more of a price correction, fixing a flawed federal policy?  I don't think anybody can argue that soda is now ridiculously artificially cheap specifically due to government policies.

So if state governments taking measures to protect public health is "nanny state"-ism, then what do we call the dangerous and misguided federal policies which states are desperately trying to correct these days?

I'm sorry, but there are many more shades of gray here than I think you're seeing.

*Leaving aside for now my many problems with bottled water


[ Parent ]
OY (4.00 / 1)
I get so sick and tired of people telling me what I should or shouldn't do.

And I'm especially tired of people telling me that it's for my own good. I'm getting sick and tired of the wise people in governemt beating me with taxes to get me to do their bidding.

And for people to encourage government to step into the role of nanny for the people is incredibly dangerous. Do you really want me to tell you what you should and shouldn't eat, or would you prefer to make those decissions yourself?

Get the hell off of my back, bugger off....

And I don't think that soda is ridiculously cheap because of government subsidies. It's cheap because chemists and chemical engineers have figured out how to pull so many different things out of corn. It's cheap because chemists figured out how to convert the glucose or sucrose (I forget which) in corn into fructose.

If you were to eat sugar in as high an ammount as some consume HFCS you'd have problems too, although they might be different ones. The problem isn't that it's cheap, the problem is that people have developed poor eating habbits for a variety of resons. Putting a tax on soda will do nothing to remedy the underlying problem.

Now if you don't give a crap about that base problem, and only want to generate revenue for the state, county, city, fed, whom ever, then fine. But be honest about it.

But if you're actually trying to encourage people to make healthy choices, then a tax isn't the way to go. Education is the way. Having a soda occasionally isn't a problem, it's drinking the stuff by the gallon that's the problem, and I don't think the people who drink large quantities of soda are all that poor. Go price some soda at the store when it's not on sale, it ain't actually that cheap.

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." ~ John Wayne


[ Parent ]
Wow... (4.00 / 3)
I get so sick and tired of people telling me what I should or shouldn't do.

And I did that where?

And I'm especially tired of people telling me that it's for my own good. I'm getting sick and tired of the wise people in governemt [sic] beating me with taxes to get me to do their bidding.

And I did that where?

And for people to encourage government to step into the role of nanny for the people is incredibly dangerous. Do you really want me to tell you what you should and shouldn't eat, or would you prefer to make those decissions yourself?

Sorry for asking you a question, Jeebis H. Christ!

Get the hell off of my back, bugger off....

Lol, well I'm not "on your back" but whatever.  I do believe, however, that from now on I no longer feel a need to engage you on any substantive issues here whatsoever, since all I apparently get is nonsensical vitriol in return.


[ Parent ]
I wasn't referring to what you said (4.00 / 2)
I was referring to all the different groups, both governmental and nongovernmental, that come up will BS like the soda tax, all in our best interests of course...

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." ~ John Wayne

[ Parent ]
Oh, okay... (4.00 / 3)
I see what you mean.  We'll just have to agree to disagree here then, I'm too sick and tired these days to do anything else...

[ Parent ]
glucose (4.00 / 2)
Starches are glucose polymers. Corn syrup is glucose syrup, and glucose is converted to fructose to make HFCS.

Maple syrup is sucrose syrup. Regardless of grade or source, maple syrup contains about 66% sucrose, and less than 1% each of glucose and fructose.


[ Parent ]
correction (4.00 / 2)
I said "regardless of source" in the sentence about maple syrup. Actually, I think I remember that independent Vermonters insist on doing things their own way, as usual, and Vermont maple syrup has about 67% sucrose.

[ Parent ]
Education (4.00 / 2)
To the extent that taxation eventually affected cigarette use, taxation was preceded by/accompanied with a lot of education, which not only affected behavior but also made it OK for legislators to impose taxes at a punitive level that might actually affect behavior.

If soda taxes at levels now being discussed might affect behavior of low income people, I doubt they will decrease soda consumption. More likely, people will consume the same amount of soda, and will have less money available for healthier choices.


[ Parent ]
disagreement (4.00 / 2)
Somebody in the NBC video disagrees with me, saying that an 18% price increase will reduce consumption. No indication of who he is, however, and no indication of what study might have been referenced and no link to it. WTF? Brian Williams is a loser, but can he really be that incompetent?

[ Parent ]
CBS video (4.00 / 2)
Ah, Katie is on the job. The CBS News video not only tells us that the speaker is Barry Popkin, Ph.D. from Gillings Sch. of Public Health, University of North Carolina, but the narrative text gives us the report.

Food Price and Diet and Health Outcomes

Way to ace the competition, Katie.


[ Parent ]
sugar (4.00 / 1)
If you were to eat sugar in as high an ammount as some consume HFCS you'd have problems too, although they might be different ones.

Problems would be the same. Sucrose is 50% fructose. One common grade of HFCS is 42% fructose. It is high fructose compared to regular corn syrup. It is not high fructose compared to sucrose. The other popular grade of HFCS is 55% sucrose, the same as honey.

Some grades of HFCS are highly concentrated fructose syrups, but these are primarily for economical transportation and storage of fructose. They are not typically used in factory foods.


[ Parent ]
Fowler's study (0.00 / 0)
Although the CBS reprint of the WebMD article is muddled to the point of being not only incomprehensible but wrong, as WebMD articles so often are, it contains tantalizingly interesting information. The real story was published in 2008 in the journal Obesity.

A pdf is available at that link. Link for the HTML version is

Fueling the Obesity Epidemic? Artificially Sweetened Beverage Use and Long-term Weight Gain


I think that was the study (4.00 / 1)
I was thinking about when I said that eating large ammounts of sugar would result in problems but different ones than consuming large ammounts of HFCS.

In the study I'm thinking of, test subjects that consumed the HFCS put on a different type of fat that was possibly associated with adult onset diabetes?

I know that when sugar started to become widely available at affordable prices to the masses some diet related problems started to become more common, at least that's what I've read and seen on documentaries.

One thing I wonder about is how people like Harold's family dealt with an abundance of sugar. They always boiled sorghum and collected honey. Perhaps because they had to process and forage the stuff themselves they were a bit more frugal with it. Plus those people worked very hard sun up to sun down, which probably had something to do with things like diabetes not being too common back then in those populations.

As I've said to people in the past, once I started using a scythe to harvest hay in quantities large enough to feed livestock, I really understood why people ate so much back then. If you didn't you'd starve to death.

When Harold was a kid his dad was still harvesting the wheat with a scythe that had a cradle on it, and even though things like plowing were done with a team, that's way more work that sitting on a tractor all day, and a lot of crops were still sown by hand and things like corn were harvested by hand back then. You do that kind of work all day, you can pretty much eat what you want and you won't gain weight.

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." ~ John Wayne


[ Parent ]
Something else I'm wondering about (4.00 / 1)
is information I learned while watching a show on the Science Channel yesterday.

They were talking about body clocks and eating habbits. The show held that eating habbits are very different now than they were 100 years ago. They contended that back then the big meals were eaten in the morning and afternoon, and little or no meal was eaten in the evening. Now, however, they said that the big meal of the day is often eaten in the evening, when activity levels are low, which contributes to health problems such as weight gain, etc.  

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." ~ John Wayne


[ Parent ]
Back then (0.00 / 0)
You've written about this before, although implicitly. To me, "back then" means days when we would buck haybales, hoe weeds, etc. How could a person do that without serious fortification? And, although farms were electrified by then, we didn't have TV or computers, and little motivation to stay up when respectable people should be sleeping. Now we have low evening activity levels, you bet - we're awake, but we don't burn many calories watching TV.

The big difference in my own life was between farm and town. In town, we had substantial breakfasts and the evening meal always was the main one. Lunch depended on whether I was working. If I was in school, it probably was soup and a sandwich. Working during the summer, lunch was big.


[ Parent ]
I agree with you (4.00 / 1)
I also think, that in addition to all the things like HFCS that we're eating now vs what people ate even 50 years ago, the activity level is so much lower.

I wonder what the calorie requirement was back then say for someone doing manual labor on a farm vs someone even doing a service job now and the calorie requirement for someone doing that type of work vs someone doing work in an office?

I remember when I first started working in the mason trades. I was what they called a helper, and later a tile and stone apprentice. What you do in those jobs is basically be a donkey. You mix 'mud' (mortars and grouts), stock tile/stone for the journeymen, grout the installations, etc. You're running constantly and working really hard. That's why everyone looks foreward to becoming a journeyman (woman), so you don't have to work so hard. Not that setting isn't hard work, it's just that it's a lot easier than shoveling sand and running a wheelbarrow with several hundred pounds of mortar in it.

When I worked as a helper/apprentice I could pretty much eat anything I felt like and I was 40 lbs lighter than I am now and half again as strong. Low normal BP, low bad cholesterol, high normal good cholesterol. A doctor of mine was astonished when I told him what I ate after he got my blood workup back from a checkup. Then he asked me what I did for a living. When I told him, he shrugged and said "No problem, what ever you eat, you're burning it off as you digest it".

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." ~ John Wayne


[ Parent ]
calorie requirement (0.00 / 0)
I can't help chuckling at your point there. I wonder where those 2000 and 2500 calorie numbers came from. Supposedly one is for some average woman of some average activity, and the other is for a similar man, but I think they must be way out of date.

[ Parent ]
When I graduated HS I weighed 165 lbs. (4.00 / 1)
I am 5'6", so I was, to put it politely, a bit on the stocky side.

I wanted to loose weight. I wanted to be 130 lbs.

My mom and I designed a diet for me that helped me to loose the weight, all but 5 lbs., by doing nothing but controling my food intake. I didn't restrict myself to or from carbs, protein, sugars, or any of the other things that people key on in a diet. Although, to be honest, my mom did all the cooking during the week and all she ever did was cook from scratch and she prepared pretty balanced meals for the family. During the weekends we ate out at restaurants and from the concessions at horse shows for a couple years, then for three more years we transitioned from horse show photography to selling my art at traveling mall shows, so we'd eat out on those weekends too.

All I did was to reduce my calorie intake, but I was able to eat what ever I wanted as long as the total calories consumed each day came to no more than what we figured I needed to maintain 130 lbs. body weight.

At the time mom found out that to maintain body weight, a sedentary person (on average) needed to consume 10 calories per pound on a average daily basis. I don't know where she got that information, it might have been from the calorie book she had. The thing had all sorts of foods, both raw and cooked, fast food meals, things like flour, etc. listed in it. Anyway, we figured, based on the info she had that I needed to consume 1,300 calories/day on average to maintain a 130 lb. body weight. At the time I was working as a pro horse show photographer during the weekends and painted animal portraits, and other art during the week. So, by and large, I led a pretty sedentary lifestyle.

It took me 6 or 7 months to get down to 135 and then I stopped measuring everything. By that time I was pretty well trained to eyeball my meals, and I had a wardrobe that kept me in check.

So by that measure, I only needed 1300 calories on average per day, not 2,000.

Of course, when I went to work for my dad, my energy needs went up a fair ammount. But at the time, from 18-25 years of age, I only needed 1,300.

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." ~ John Wayne


[ Parent ]
Very interesting. (0.00 / 0)
The average American today is very probably NOT less sedentary than you were then.

Shudder. How many hours per day does the average kid watch TV and play video games?

Implied corollary question: just exactly how screwed up are the criteria that specify how many calories kids should get from school meal programs?


[ Parent ]
even more interesting (0.00 / 0)
You lost about 1 pound per week. That's exactly the rate at which I lost weight when I changed the way I ate in 1998, and my philosophy was the same as your mother's - I was overweight, and then I began to eat the amount I would eat to maintain a lower weight. That was 1600-1700 calories, not far from your 10 calories per pound. A little less than 10, but not much.

[ Parent ]
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