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A New Utterly Stupid Way to Make "Ethical Meat"

by: Jill Richardson

Fri Feb 19, 2010 at 22:45:51 PM PST


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Here's a new version of a stupid idea that goes around every now and again (growing meat in a vat to avoid killing animals). Let's genetically engineer animals so they don't feel pain! And the author admits that this idea is specifically intended to allow for the continuation of factory farming:

We are most likely stuck with factory farms, given that they produce most of the beef and pork Americans consume. But it is still possible to reduce the animals' discomfort - through neuroscience. Recent advances suggest it may soon be possible to genetically engineer livestock so that they suffer much less.

If you're so concerned about animal pain, don't eat them. Every living thing feels pain, and every living thing dies. Either they die via slaughter or of disease, injury, or predation. Death is not fun no matter what. But all of LIFE doesn't have to be suffering too, hence the widespread opposition to factory farms. According to this idea, we would bypass that by rending the animals insensitive to that pain. I'm sorry but that's not enough. You've still got the environmental problems associated with factory farms, not to mention the unfairness to anyone living near factory farms who suffers from health problems or sees their property value decline (or just has to live with the constant smell of shit) as a result of the pollution and smell.  

Jill Richardson :: A New Utterly Stupid Way to Make "Ethical Meat"
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I think this is an example... (4.00 / 2)
...of what we call 'moving the goalposts.'

"Oh, all right.  We'll rip some genes outta the damned pigs.  Now will you stop whining, you dirty fucking hippies?"

What an odd title to go along with the article, too.

Not Grass-Fed, but at Least Pain-Free

He's making a pseudo-ethical argument, while totally ignoring the environmental issue which is used as the comparison.  Is that the author or The NY Times responsible for the title?  Either way, the title doesn't match the content.

I'm gonna go read Consider the Lobster again...

Before we go any further, let's acknowledge that the questions of whether and how different kinds of animals feel pain, and of whether and why it might be justifiable to inflict pain on them in order to eat them, turn out to be extremely complex and difficult. And comparative neuroanatomy is only part of the problem. Since pain is a totally subjective mental experience, we do not have direct access to anyone or anything's pain but our own; and even just the principles by which we can infer that others experience pain and have a legitimate interest in not feeling pain involve hard-core philosophy-metaphysics, epistemology, value theory, ethics. The fact that even the most highly evolved nonhuman mammals can't use language to communicate with us about their subjective mental experience is only the first layer of additional complication in trying to extend our reasoning about pain and morality to animals. And everything gets progressively more abstract and convolved as we move farther and farther out from the higher-type mammals into cattle and swine and dogs and cats and rodents, and then birds and fish, and finally invertebrates like lobsters.


Coming soon to a Philadelphia near you!

And just to be clear... (4.00 / 2)
Fwiw, I don't make the ethics argument myself; but it should be pointed out that when one does, it's sort of dishonest for them to pretend that the whole range of the ethics debate is limited solely to our current understanding of neurology.

Coming soon to a Philadelphia near you!

[ Parent ]
Vat meat (4.00 / 1)
So, I agree with this genetic modification being ridiculous, but why is vat meat "utterly stupid"?  Look, I wouldn't eat eat, but I eat meat about once a month to begin with.  If people want cheap garbage meat, here's a way to have it without the environmental costs.  I agree that this isn't what I have in mind when I think of a just, sustainable food system.  But would it not be better than what we have now?  Of course, the only reason this seems at all like a better idea is that I don't think it would be possible to design a worse system than we have right now.

What's permavorism? Visit permavore.blogspot.com/

I'm not convinced that vat meat (4.00 / 2)
would not have an environmental cost.  I mean, they would have to "feed" the meat something in order to make it grow.

Vote for yourself at www.ni4d.us!

[ Parent ]
In addition to your point about having to supply nutrients to the grown tissue (4.00 / 3)
I have an idea that the vat meat would be lower in micro nutrients, similar to how non organic vegetables are usually somewhat lower in micro nutrients, and vegetables, even when grown organically, vary in nutrient levels depending on where they are grown, the type of soils they're grown in, etc.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

[ Parent ]
Ah, I saw this (4.00 / 2)
and was waiting for you to say something about it!

Vote for yourself at www.ni4d.us!

Have any of you seen Temple Grandin ? (4.00 / 2)
one of the best movie I've seen in a while. Deals with "ethical" slaughtering

Not meat in a vat..yuck....


I'm a big fan of Temple Grandin (4.00 / 2)
haven't seen the movie, but I've read a lot of her work, articles, etc.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

[ Parent ]
its a great story (4.00 / 2)
and I learned a lot about her. I'm borrowing her last book from a friend.

it's a rare movie that can entertain, enlighten and inform. This one hits all 3.


[ Parent ]
Philosophers (4.00 / 1)
From the NYT article:

Adam Shriver is a doctoral student in the philosophy-neuroscience-psychology program at Washington University.

From Jay's quote:

hard-core philosophy-metaphysics, epistemology, value theory, ethics

This confirms my belief that a proposition does not exist, which is so foolish that some philosopher will not take it up.

I have the same question about both the NYT op-ed and Consider the Lobster. Where is this issue on the list of top 100 reasons not to do factory meat or to decimate the lobster population? Or shrimp, or bluefin tuna, etc.? Is this a solution in search of a problem?


oh great (4.00 / 1)
my alma mater. No wonder he's such a dumbass. That school has buildings named after Monsanto.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
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