More on Food Stamps for Fast Food

Inevitable outcome... (4.00 / 2)

...of the prevalent mindset in modern America that 'private business can do everything better'.

So this is what we get.  A system in which it's easier for a homeless, elderly, or disabled person on food stamps to buy a "Monster Stacker Triple Bacon Attacker" (or whatever the hell the new extreme burgers these days are called), than it is for that same person to be able to buy some fruit at a farmers' market.

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Fri Feb 19, 2010 at 22:27:32 PM UTC

Hmmm (4.00 / 2)

Inevitable outcome...
...of the prevalent mindset in modern America that 'private business can do everything better'.
So this is what we get.  A system in which it's easier for a homeless, elderly, or disabled person on food stamps to buy a "Monster Stacker Triple Bacon Attacker" (or whatever the hell the new extreme burgers these days are called), than it is for that same person to be able to buy some fruit at a farmers' market.

If your premise is that government can do things better, perhaps you should take another look at the situation.

It's government that's providing the money to buy the food, but it's private business that's providing the food for sale in both instances - fast food companies and farms at the farmers markets.

I think that the real issue here, if we don't want people on food assistance to be able to buy already food, is with the government regulations which allow the purchase of already cooked foods, and not with the private businesses?

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

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by: Joanne Rigutto @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 01:03:01 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Not exactly... (4.00 / 1)

Government reflects the mindset of the population as a whole, it isn't an entity unto itself (the exception being a totalitarian state, which we're obviously not).  It isn't a matter of government vs. private business, it's a matter of private business vs. a parallel publicly funded food distribution system.

I believe the public sector absolutely could do a better job in getting better food to those who need it most, by investing in a public system of community kitchens, restaurants, etc; which is where I'd go.  

It may be cheaper to send homeless people to Jack in the Box now, sure, but that's a woefully shortsighted 'solution'.

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 03:02:48 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wow (4.00 / 1)

did you just say that state run restaurants would be a good thing?

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

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by: Joanne Rigutto @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 03:07:28 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

No... (4.00 / 1)

Unless soup kitchens and food banks, etc, which receive public funds makes them "state run".

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 03:10:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Belo Horizonte, Brazil... (4.00 / 1)

Here's one model we can use as a blueprint, just for starters.

For me, the story of Brazil's fourth largest city, Belo Horizonte, is a rich trove of such lessons. Belo, a city of 2.5 million people, once had 11 percent of its population living in absolute poverty, and almost 20 percent of its children going hungry. Then in 1993, a newly elected administration declared food a right of citizenship. The officials said, in effect: If you are too poor to buy food in the market-you are no less a citizen. I am still accountable to you.

The new mayor, Patrus Ananias-now leader of the federal anti-hunger effort-began by creating a city agency, which included assembling a 20-member council of citizen, labor, business, and church representatives to advise in the design and implementation of a new food system. The city already involved regular citizens directly in allocating municipal resources-the "participatory budgeting" that started in the 1970s and has since spread across Brazil. During the first six years of Belo's food-as-a-right policy, perhaps in response to the new emphasis on food security, the number of citizens engaging in the city's participatory budgeting process doubled to more than 31,000.

The city agency developed dozens of innovations to assure everyone the right to food, especially by weaving together the interests of farmers and consumers. It offered local family farmers dozens of choice spots of public space on which to sell to urban consumers, essentially redistributing retailer mark-ups on produce-which often reached 100 percent-to consumers and the farmers. Farmers' profits grew, since there was no wholesaler taking a cut. And poor people got access to fresh, healthy food.

[...]

Another product of food-as-a-right thinking is three large, airy "People's Restaurants" (Restaurante Popular), plus a few smaller venues, that daily serve 12,000 or more people using mostly locally grown food for the equivalent of less than 50 cents a meal. When Anna and I ate in one, we saw hundreds of diners-grandparents and newborns, young couples, clusters of men, mothers with toddlers. Some were in well-worn street clothes, others in uniform, still others in business suits.

Notice Belo didn't decide to turn to Domino's Pizza to feed itself.

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 03:17:34 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Michelle Obama (4.00 / 1)

should hire that guy.

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by: count @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 03:28:35 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Lou Dobbs would LOVE that!!! (4.00 / 1)

Heh...

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 03:33:26 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Sounds nice (4.00 / 1)

but don't be taken in by the 'less than 50 cents a meal' line. Costs down in Brazil are a lot less than they are here. But still I take your point.

One thing I think you're missing is that what they're doing in Brazil is not that different than what's going on in this country. Public money goes to the promotion of farmers markets, zoning in some cities (Portland I know is an exception but it's still noteworthy, perhaps because it is exceptional) to encourage small food vendors, etc. Food stamp programs are becomeing more integrated with farmers markets, and I think CSAs too.

Just because food stamps can be used at Jack In The Box and other such venues doesn't mean that the whole system is falling appart.

And, it looks like what the Brazilian government has done has been to 'get out of the way' as the consrvatives chant, in order to connect consumers with private businesses, be they restaurants, farms, etc. Doesn't look like government down there is doing things better than private business, it just looks like government is allowing private businesses do what they can do. In the case of a farm, that means provide food. In the case of a restaurant that means provide prepared food. Kind of like Jack In The Box provides prepared food....

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

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by: Joanne Rigutto @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 03:45:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

What's different (4.00 / 1)

It isn't a national program in Brazil, it is one city, and what's different is crucial. What's different is the intensity of focus. What happens here seems relatively piecemeal, fragmentary, haphazard.

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by: count @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 04:12:53 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I wonder if things are actually piecemeal here (4.00 / 1)

or if that's an appearance because, while the federal government hands out the money, it's the states that are implementing the programs?

I've never used the food stamp program. I've been eligable many a time, but I always fell back on family to help out. Actually, by my income all of last year, and so far this year, I would qualify. Given my situation though, I don't think I have any business applying for food stamps.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

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by: Joanne Rigutto @ Sat Feb 20, 2010 at 04:18:37 AM UTC

[ Parent ]