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The Chicken Project

by: Jill Richardson

Fri Oct 30, 2009 at 17:38:13 PM PDT


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For months now, I've been dreaming of getting a small flock of backyard chickens. The problem? No backyard. Then I met and fell in love with a wonderful man with two small children... and a backyard. I'll be moving in with them in about a month. I hope that the chickens will follow soon after :) Of course, we aren't 100% decided on it yet. Well, I am. But I need to make sure he's 100% okay with it before we go ahead with it. I'd like to bring him to the nursery where I plan to buy them from so he can ask any questions he may have and then have a chance to veto the idea once he's got full information on it.

In the meantime, I'm busy plotting my future flock of chickens :) I plan to document my chicken project on this site, to help any others who are thinking about getting some chickens.

Jill Richardson :: The Chicken Project
Why Chickens?
I'll be honest. The first and foremost reason is because I'm a sucker for animals. A big sucker. And I LOVE chickens. Many chicken owners say that having chickens means having constant entertainment - chicken TV! Plus, they eat bugs, fertilize your yard, eat kitchen scraps, and produce eggs. What's not to love? Right now, it takes us a while to compost our kitchen scraps in plastic containers but the chickens will do it instantly (without the plastic). In goes the scraps, out comes the poop. And our compost bin has become a breeding ground for some very pesky houseflies... houseflies whose larvae the chickens would gladly eat (while they simultaneously did us yet another favor by turning our compost). In theory, chickens produce meat as well - but my birds won't be for meat. (The exception will be if one of the birds is mean and picks on the others. Then that bird will become somebody's dinner.)

Picking the Breeds
I spent a long time playing with the Chicken Breed Selector on MyPetChicken.com and if that wasn't enough, then I consulted the book How to Raise Chickens by rare chicken breed expert Christine Heinrichs. Here's what I came up with:

- One bird for colorful eggs, like an Ameraucana or an Araucana.
- One supercute bird, like a Silkie or a Cochin
- One bird for max egg production, like a Rhode Island Red
- Maybe a Wyandotte because they are good layers and I think they are pretty.

Silkie's have a reputation for being very broody, so I would like to get a bird that is equally cute but less broody. (Broody means that the bird wants to sit on the nest and hatch its eggs - a problem if your birds are for egg production and you have no interest in producing chicks.) Feathery feet are a must.

I've been enlisting allies in my chicken conspiracy: my boyfriend's kids. The older girl wants a cute bird with feathery feet. Awesome. That's on my list. That can be her chicken. The toddler wants a "naked chicken" (a naked neck chicken) because she met one the other day and she thinks it's hilarious to say "naked chicken." Hmm. So do we skip the Wyandotte or just get 5 chickens instead of 4. We'll see.

Eggs, Live Chicks, or Adult Hens?
So once we decide how many and what kind of chickens we want, how do we obtain them? Do we go for eggs and hatch them ourselves, do we get day old chicks, or do we get some adults?

The advantage of eggs is that the kids can see them hatch. The downsides are that we must buy an incubator and not all the eggs may hatch. Plus you'll have to wait a while until they are old enough to lay eggs. Money's in short supply, so I'm not a fan of that idea.

The advantage of day old chicks are that you can get them in the mail, you can handle them so they are used to being handled by people as adults, and you can have the chicks sexed with some degree of success to make sure you get all hens and no roosters. I am somewhat worried about accidentally getting a rooster. If it happens, I'll give it to a nearby farm or perhaps offer it to someone brave enough to kill it and eat it. (If you want to get day old chicks and you are very worried about accidentally getting a rooster, you can get a breed called Sex-Links. The female sex link chicks look very different from the males so there's 100% accuracy in sexing them.) The downside is that you have to wait a while before they lay eggs and if you order them by mail I think you need to order at least 25 of them so they have enough body heat to survive. You can solve this problem by splitting an order with some friends.

As for adults, you can get hens that are all ready to go, already laying eggs. You can make sure you get no roosters. But they are already adults so you can't handle them as chicks to make sure they are OK with being handled. Plus, you can't get them via the mail.

I am all for getting day old chicks. I was planning to get them via the mail. I'm sure I could get some chicks locally but I probably couldn't be as picky about breeds if I do it that way. I figured when the time came I'd ask a farm if they'd want the remaining 20 or so chicks that I had to order to make sure they had enough body heat to survive in the mail. I don't know how expensive that would be, actually.

Just for kicks, I went to the McMurray Hatchery homepage to check on the availability and price of the chickens. The golden laced wyandotte I wanted was sold out, as was the Naked Neck and all of the Cochins. Drat. The Araucana female is $3.15, the Rhode Island Red female is $2.40, and the Silver Laced Wyandotte is $2.65. That makes 3 out of 25. To round out the order, I added 22 extra Rhode Island Reds. A vaccination for Marek's Disease for every chick is $.15 per bird. It is recommended and so are some baby chick feed products. Altogether the order is $71.99 before shipping. $53.59 of that is the 23 Rhode Island Reds. In other words, buying chicks via mail and giving the extras to a farm for free would cost me about $50 plus shipping. Hmm. Bad idea.

A better idea I recently discovered would be to buy the chicks through City Farmers Nursery, a local nursery here in San Diego that keeps a running list of customers who want chickens and then places the order when they get enough customers to do so. They also raise and sell chickens. Plus they are a great nursery and I'm happy to be able to support them with my business.

Getting the Yard Ready
Part of the appeal of backyard chickens is that the chickens can eat your weeds, eat the maggots out of the compost (or whatever pest bugs you have around), etc. Plus their eggs are healthier if they are able to eat grass and bugs. That means the yard oughta have some grass and bugs. We've got plenty of weeds in our patio area, but the lawn itself is mostly dead. My eco-conscious boyfriend didn't think the lawn justified the amount of water it required since California's in a drought (I agree!).

My goal is to get the yard into shape with native plants that resist drought. I want to give the plants a chance to establish themselves before the chickens attack them. Unfortunately many native plants resemble small bushes that often look dead even though they aren't. That's not what anyone wants in a yard. Another alternative I don't like are cacti. So I've started asking around about native plants.

One person recommended Blue Grama Grass, which looks like a very good idea for replacing the lawn. Another alternative would be the SW Native Grass Seed Mix. It would get pretty tall if left unchecked but I think the chickens might be good lawnmowers. Other recommendations were Lemon Pop flowers, wild anise (Carum Keloggii?), and oat grass. Last week at the farmers' market, I asked a native plant expert for his recommendation and he sold me cluster field sedge. I'm not sure that was such a good idea but we'll see. It seems like everyone you ask has a different recommendation. In the end I think I'll go back to City Farmers' Nursery and ask for their advice.

Next step: Planning and buying or building the coop

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The Chicken Project | 37 comments
Moving in (4.00 / 3)
Will fluorescent lighting be a problem, or do you have that managed?

no more of a problem than it is now (4.00 / 3)
we're gonna have to do some trial and error w/ his computer monitor, the lights, and his TVs. But so far so good I think. He doesn't mind changing out the lightbulbs for me.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
Ah too cool! (4.00 / 4)
I saw how you interact with the chickens when you visited my farm. You'll do fine.

If you want to be assured of hens you could check with the shelters in your area. I hear that some are getting in chickens that people aren't able to care for.

Your concern with accidentally getting a cockerel or two when ordering/purchasing pullets from a breeder or feed store are well founded. That's how we ended up with purebred roosters. Good for us, not so good for you. However, if you order purebred pullets and wind up with a rooster or two, they might be easier to place/sell than a cross bred bird. Vaccinating for Marek's is a good idea if you order from a breeder like Murray as well. I don't know what the prevailence of Merek's is in your area, but vaccination is cheap insurance.

Two breeds I would recomend against for backyard hens, are California White and White Leghorn, as those birds are pretty squirely and they live to bust any barrier, such as flying over fences. Their motto seems to be "To boldly go where no chicken has gone before..." The heritage breeds seem to respect fences more.

Looking foreward to your adventures in poultry keeping!

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


Also, considering how you are interested in working with the birds (4.00 / 4)
even if you get mature hens, they'll take to you in a heart beat. Once they figure you're the gravy train, you'll be able to shape their behavior any way you want. Chickens are very food oriented, and are therefore easy to train. Even relatively wild birds tame down once they figure out that they can shape your behavior to deliver more food to them. In that way, the two of you can work off of each other to shape each other's behavior. That is - they'll train you while you train them, if that makes any sense.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

[ Parent ]
at risk of making a bad joke (4.00 / 3)
thanks because I don't want to find out the hard way what happens when the chicken crosses the road. Especially on a busy road like ours and near a police station!!! (I am not sure about the legality of chickens but I would prefer to live in blissful ignorance on that matter).

Re: roosters... I love them. I love hearing crowing in the morning, or any other time of day. I doubt the neighbors agree. I wonder if they would be understanding when I tell them that fair is fair because their dog barks 24/7.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman


[ Parent ]
That's a good argument (4.00 / 3)
I wonder if they would be understanding when I tell them that fair is fair because their dog barks 24/7.

But I don't think it's ever worked to date. But I could be wrong....

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


[ Parent ]
Depending on local laws (4.00 / 3)
that 24/7 dog barking could very well be an issue. Here it is. Your dog can bark no more than a rooster could crow :) Chickens are legal (3 per person/household?) but not roosters. We also have a pet law. If a LL has a no pet rule, but doesn't cite you within 90 days (you can't hide the pet!) you are pet legal. I know someone who got chickens but wasn't sure her LL was cool with them as pets. They have a nice coop in her backyard now :) I know if I lived on the ground floor with access to the yard, my LL would allow it. He also allows my non-barking dog. Basic laws here in NYC allow for responsible pet ownership, dog, cat or chickens ;) Where I'm moving to in the mountains, I can't have chickens or a clothesline! Go figure . . .  I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get away with chickens in the back though. I doubt the neighbor would rat me out and they would be the only ones close enough to know. I'll also be over the cat limit there . . .  

[ Parent ]
Be sure you have the henhouse finished before you buy the chicks. (4.00 / 4)
They grow fast, and if they are overcrowded in their brooder they will begin feather picking out of boredom and stress. And once they start taking to pecking each other until blood is drawn it will be VERY hard to stop them. Chickens are omnivores and are capable of pecking each other to death under the right circumstances.

Getting your chicks at a local feed store is a great idea. You can examine the birds and make sure they are healthy when you pick them up. And generally speaking you can order a lot less than through a hatchery.

I love having my chickens around. I have two Americaunas, a Golden-Laced Wyandotte, a Silver-Laced Wyandotte, a Partridge Rock rooster and hen, two Barnevelders, a Dominique, and a Speckled Sussex. I got them on April 1 through Ideal Hatchery, ordering with two other people to meet the minimum. All arrived alive, lively, and in good shape. They free-range in our two-acre yard and give me five-six eggs a day, although that number is decreasing now that the amount of sunlight is less than 13 hours.

Good luck!


Thanks, good advice (4.00 / 2)
That was more or less my plan. We need to figure out what we're doing with that. It can get pretty hot in the summer - up to 100F. It doesn't get too cold. And I want to let them roam around during the daytime to some extent, but I don't want poultry poop on the sidewalk and the front porch. I was thinking about creating some sort of moveable chicken fence with wooden stakes and wire mesh. We've got a wooden fence around the entire yard too.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
Hey Jill (4.00 / 3)
 You can get poultry net fencing with the stakes already in it so it makes in really easy to move. I got about 110 ft of electrified fencing (to protect against predators) for about 140 bucks. I do believe you can just get non-electric versions that is much cheaper.  

[ Parent ]
awesome (4.00 / 2)
that sounds perfect! we've got a large german shepherd mix and a wooden fence around the yard so i'm not sure it needs to be electrified. unless the dog thinks the birds are food...

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
Backyard chickens (4.00 / 2)
backyardchickens.com

The family might like to listen to Bucky Buckaw's Backyard Chickens radio broadcasts. Eight segments are available at the Deconstructing Dinner website, and the DD episodes in which they appear can be selectively downloaded from iTunes.

Also at iTunes, I found five episodes of the Sagebrush Variety Show. Each episode begins with a Bucky Buckaw segment, 7-8 minutes. In the first show, he calls Portland "the unofficial capital of North American urban chickening."


Thanks (4.00 / 2)
I find Bucky obnoxious, to be honest :) I've brought the girls to a farm, a nursery, and a petting zoo where they were each able to pet some chickens.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
Our experience with hens (4.00 / 3)
We got chicks in early May, and now we have four confirmed hens (not yet laying) and one likely cockerel in our backyard flock. Here are my suggestions, basically what I would do differently based on what I learned:

See if you can find a local breeder that sells chicks/hens from a rare/endangered breed. This way you support a local business who is working to preserve the genetic diversity in chickens. While there is nothing really wrong with large hatcheries (we got our chicks from a store similar to your City Farms Nursery here in Oregon, which got them from McMurray), buying local feels right to me. And you are likely to get a breed that does well in your environment.

Consider getting all birds from a single breed. We have 5 birds of 5 breeds, and while they are beautiful and fun, I think that ultimately that would do better together if they were not all very different.

Chickens love all kinds of brassica plants, as well as everything we might like to plant in a backyard garden. They will eat weeds, but they will also eat all your edible plants, if you let them.



Thanks (4.00 / 2)
we plan to have a garden. The chickens can't eat our garden but I do plan to let them go into the garden after we're done harvesting the food so they can eat up whatever's left.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
I had a chicken (4.00 / 3)
who lived as my pet for 7 years.  My neighbours loved her eggs...I couldn't eat them for I felt as though I was eating my children.  I have three great danes, a border collie, labrador and cat.  They were her best buds and they loved lying out in the sun while she pecked the ticks etc off of them.  When you bring the chicks home, get the dog used to them as fast as possible.  They should be fine after the initial greeting.  Mine lived inside the house so i have no tips to give you in that regard, but I will say you are going to have some incredibly faithful 'dog like' friends. btw, other than the occasional dandelion I never saw her pecking at plant vegetation, but that may be because she preferred table food HAHA

Hatcheries (4.00 / 3)
It was my impression that all hatcheries of egg laying breeds kill the male chicks.  Is this untrue, or do you not consider it a problem?  I would really like to know.  If they don't, what do they do with the large number of left over roosters?
Also, if the goal is to treat these animals as naturally as possible, isn't it a problem to take the eggs from the layer and not have them hatched naturally?
If you get replacement hens after the first batch from the hatchery, would you just hatch them at home?  If so, what do you do with the males?  
Finally, once they get to a certain age, they stop laying, right?  What do you do at this point?  Do you kill them or keep them as pets for however many years they have left?
These questions may sound antagonistic, but I don't mean them to.  I really would like to get answers to them in order to resolve my own issues with egg eating.
Thanks!

Hatcheries for commercial chicks do kill (4.00 / 1)
the males as babies. That is true. But in the case of a hatchery that is selling rare breeds or even common breeds that aren't used commercially, I don't think they would be killing the males. However, the roosters would be sold either for breeding or as meat birds, one or the other. And you don't need a 1 to 1 hen to rooster ratio even if you ARE keeping roosters (more like one rooster per 10 hens), so that means that 90% of the roosters are getting raised for meat. If it's a big issue for you, look into getting a chicken from a shelter or from a local breeder whose ethics you can verify.

About the most natural thing to do with the eggs, if I don't have a rooster (and I won't because I can't - not in an urban environment), the eggs won't hatch. And since they won't hatch, I'm eating them. Other types of poultry don't lay as many eggs as chickens and it seems to me that whereas at one time a wild ancestor of chickens may have only laid eggs during the breeding season for the purpose of reproduction, as they were domesticated, they were selected for year round egg production as a food source instead of just for breeding. So it's a question of whether you think that's natural or not.

As for what to do with the chickens once egg laying tapers off - they will be pets. You can eat an old spent hen if you want, although the meat is not known for being great. I'm sure it'd be fine for a chicken soup or something like that. But my girls would be pets for sure. They would have names and they would live long, pampered lives.

Last, if I accidentally got a rooster, I'd give it away. My preference would be to give it to someone who would keep it as a pet or use it for breeding, but if somebody was going to raise it for food I wouldn't complain too much as long as they had plans to raise it well and slaughter it in as humane a manner as possible.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman


[ Parent ]
Hatcheries that breed heritage breeds do sell cockerels (4.00 / 3)
You can order pullets (female chicks), cockerels (male chicks), or straight run (a mix of females and males). Generally straight run orders are less expensive than sexed orders. In the broiler industry, birds are sexed and males and females go to different growers. I think they grow at different rates, and I think some of the broiler cockerels go to capon production. It's my understanding that it's mostly the commercial layer hatcheries that kill the cockerels, although if they had a market for the birds I'm sure they wouldn't.

Roosters are great for a variety of meat purposes, but the problem is that leghorn roosters don't get very big, and generally, the birds are going to be old enough, 8 months+, before they're big enough to eat that you have to prepare them differently than a broiler. Lots of people aren't familiar enough with cooking older or aged birds and are disapointed at how an aged bird comes out.

I've got 5 or 6 big roos out here that I really need to butcher. I have more roos than it's good to have considering the number of hens we have. The birds are around 9 months old and if I roast them like I would a broiler, they'll be tough as shoe leather. I'm going to use them for stock, and take the meat off the bones when they're done and freeze it for chicken salad, enchiladas, etc.  

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


[ Parent ]
naturally (4.00 / 2)
We've been in a reciprocal relationship with domesticated poultry for thousands of years. A wild bird has a good chance of dying of starvation in times of scarcity, or of being killed by predation, and many eggs didn't hatch - they became food for predators. We - I mean people like Joanne and Jill - keep domesticated chickens safe, fed, watered, and healthy, and they give us eggs and meat in return.

A lot of negativity is associated with industrial poultry operations for meat birds or layers. In 2007, Johns Hopkins researchers published a study of 6-7 million meat birds processed by Perdue Foods growers. They reported that, on average, a Perdue meat bird was alloted 0.74-0.76 square feet of living space. The area of a sheet of typing paper is 0.65 square feet. I suspect that industrial layers are similarly confined. Industrial layers are pushed hard, their lives are brutal and short. I don't know what happens to them when their productivity is used up - compost? pet food? food for other birds or other livestock? Backyard chickens - well, what chicken wouldn't want to live in San Diego and die of old age after having been able to play with adorable children and pets?

Industrial layers are one or two breeds selected to lay as many eggs as possible as quickly as possible, and industrial meat birds are one or two breeds selected to gain as much weight as fast as possible. The owners of backyard chickens select for different criteria, and I'll bet there are many people who don't live in city residential areas who can and do keep roosters. (I'm guessing, though - anyone know the facts of that?)

Far from considering your questions to be antagonistic, I commend you for your concern. Pythagoras and George Bernard Shaw were principled vegetarians long before our modern era of industrial animal abuse. I don't know if they ate eggs but, in general, these are long-standing issues.


[ Parent ]
Most of the people I know do keep roosters (4.00 / 3)
You always will have birds go broody. Some go so broody that the only way to break them is to either let them set or give them day old chicks to care for. As long as you're going to have birds go broody anyway, they might as well be setting fertile eggs, that way they give you replacement hens.

When you have free range birds you always loose some. To disease, to old age (we have had birds out here that were laying into their 8th year), to predators. If you start out with good layers, your replacements might look oddly colored, but they'll be good layers just like the parent stock.

While broilers may only be aloted a small amount of space, that would be after they reach market weight. When they first go in the barn, they have loads of room. By the time the birds are getting cramped, they're pretty close to the end of their lives.

The ones I feel sorry for are the cage layers, those birds spend over 1 year in those cramped cages.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


[ Parent ]
I infer (4.00 / 2)
that the productive life of an industrial layer is approx one year. Is that correct? Wow. Industrial layers are destroyed at less than two years of age?

[ Parent ]
I thought they switched them out at two years old (two laying cycles) (4.00 / 2)
I thought that the commercial layers were kept through two laying cycles, but perhaps they are rotated out after just over a year of laying.

Here's some interesting info on the commercial layer industry -
The Commercial Egg Industry Should Consider Controlled Atmosphere Stunning For Spent Hens

US Patent 7074442 - Ground Meat Products Including Meat From Spent Hens

Handbook of Poultry Feed From Waste: processing and use

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


[ Parent ]
Joanne, you continually amaze me. (4.00 / 1)
Those links are great. Dispiriting, but great.

[ Parent ]
Thanks (4.00 / 2)
It's amazing how much info is out there if you use the right key words for searches. The info was out there before the internet, of course, but I have no idea how a person would have been able to get it. And of course, it would have taken forever and a day to get ahold of it.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

[ Parent ]
agreed about the layers (4.00 / 2)
at least the broilers' misery is short.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
conrats Jill! (4.00 / 2)
not only for almost having chickens, but for falling in love with a wonderful guy & wanting to teach his girls about chickens & real food.
i agree with whoever said to get your chicken pen ready before you get or order your chicks.

here are some links you/your readers may find useful:

Hatchery Reviews

Cackle Hatchery- minimum order 15 chicks

Hoffman Hatchery- minimum order 15 chicks/5 per breed

Meyer Hatchery- has a small order program - you can order as few as 3 chicks (& a fee applies which covers the cost of a heating pad, to keep your chicks warm)

on housing: we built this house-

the hen house is in one corner of the pen. the nest box (sticking out the right side) has a lift-up roof so you can gather eggs in the evening & not have to go in the pen.

it has metal fence posts with 2X4" wire at the bottom.
we jammed pvc pipe onto the metal posts to make hoops over the top & covered the whole thing with plastic bird netting (they sell this to put over fruit trees)


along with keeping the chickens in we found the bird netting has the added benefit of keeping hawks out & also snakes get tangled in it & can't get into the pen (or out of the netting)

& here's an idea for a chicken 'tractor' that you move around your yard every couple of days.



come firefly-dreaming with me....


I like your hoop pen (4.00 / 3)
I may do something like that for guinneas and pheasant next spring, or at least for breeding pens for the purebred chickens. Probably for guinneas and pheasant PVC tractors would be better, now that I think about it. I'll probably do something like that for the broilers I'd like to raise next year as well.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

[ Parent ]
thanks! (4.00 / 2)
we added in one more pvc strut in the middle. it holds up better now.

i'm hoping to add another pen like this. i want to get red cornish hens to raise for meat. i think i should keep them separate from my egg layers.
i thought i'd get maybe 50 straight run chicks (?) & keep about a dozen hens & a roo to raise my own from then on. but i can't find very much info on them...if they get broody or will i have to do an incubator....
i've heard you can get broody hens or bantams & put whatever eggs you want to hatch under them, but i've not tried it.

we have a plastic mesh fence around a large area outside the chicken pen now (that 6" orange plastic fencing) so we can let them out each day but not have chicken poo all over our front yard. they ruuuuuun back inside their pen when the hawk flies over. it's funny to watch them run so fast.

come firefly-dreaming with me....


[ Parent ]
The best hens for broodiness and good mothering characteristics (4.00 / 3)
are silkies. When I was keeping pheasants and upland game birds, the pheasant breeders I knew called them fluffy incubators. Those hens'll set on anything.

Cornish should brood too, you'll only wind up with a few who are into hatching eggs. That's a good idea though. That's what we'll be doing with our birds, although I'll be doing artificial incubation. I've been working with incubators for a long time.

Harold wants to start setting eggs now, but that'd put us moving chicks into the brooder shed in January/February. I'd rather do that in March/April, weather's warmer.

If you decide to hatch your own hens' eggs, you can store eggs for up to 14 days and get good hatchability for artificial incubation or up to 30 days if you're going to set under a hen. The eggs need to be stored at around 60 degrees F. and turned once or twice a day. If you store them in the fridge it'll kill the germ, and if they get over 75 degrees F. they'll germinate but not develop properly. I paid $60 for one of those Little Giant still air incubators at the feed store. I miss my big GQF cabinet incubator. It had a fan and an automatic turner. Those make life a lot easier. I'm going to build a cabinet incubator over the winter this year. At least that's the plan.

I bought my old GQF about 19 years ago and paid $350 for it, I think they're around $600 new now. That's what I get for selling equipment that I 'might need sometime in the future'.....

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


[ Parent ]
thanks (4.00 / 2)
i've never dealt with incubators, but i was looking at some on ebay.
i seem to remember an article in mother earth news years & years ago about building one...with a little fan & motor that gently rolled the egg tray. i'll have to go look.

we're down to one cuckoo maran, one americana & a rooster
so i'll be getting some layers this spring anyway. i'll plan on getting a couple of silkies too!

i was considering getting some turkeys but i really know nothing about them.
i've heard if you put them together w/chicks as babies you'll have no problems.... & then i've read that you should never mix your fowl.

do you keep all yours separated?
have you ever had turkeys?

come firefly-dreaming with me....


[ Parent ]
We've kept chickens, turkeys and pheasant all together (4.00 / 3)
We used to have a melanistic ringneck pheasant who would go to the highest place he could find (that he didn't have to fly up onto) and crow every 15 minutes or so. He also used to chase the big rigs up and down the side of the highway in front of the property. We called him 'Mad Max' becuase he was the 'Road Warrior'.

Our chickens, turkeys and pheasant never bothered each other, and they weren't raised together. I also used to have young chukar running loose on the property from time to time.

The only birds we've ever had problems with as far as not playing well with others are the emus. Most of them won't tollerate a chicken in the pen with them. We've had emus that killed chickens, but that's mostly because emus will give chase to anything that runs from them, especially small animals.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


[ Parent ]
a few thoughts (I've been reading a lot) (4.00 / 2)
- a chicken can incubate a turkey just fine (I've seen it done)

- you don't want to feed other species medicated chick feed bc the feed isn't formulated for them and they might overdose, so that may be 1 reason to keep 'em separated (if you're using medicated chick feed)

I feel like I JUST read a reason why you should separate chickens and turkeys but I left the book at home and I can't remember it. I've seen them together before, although the plan was for them to be separate but a few chickens decided that wasn't going to work for them and joined the turkeys just because they felt like it.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman


[ Parent ]
I'll have to take a look at the feed bag labels (4.00 / 2)
There is chick starter, and there is turkey/gamebird starter. I think the protein content is the same in both, but I think you may be right that the drug, a coccidiostat, may be at a different concentration. It may be that I was starting chicks on the gamebird starter when I had the pheastants. It's been 10 years since I've brooded gamebirds, so it's hard to remember which I used. I do remember though, that I fed everyone the same stuff.

When rearing different species together, if you feed them all the same ration, you do need to be careful. There are certain cattle feeds that will kill a horse, some goat feeds will kill sheep. Sometimes it's the medication, other times its the mineral content, protein content, etc.

If you start chicks on a nonmedicated feed, you needn't worry. I've always started them on a medicated feed because I was told that if I didn't they'd die, although all the chicks that were hatched by loose hens did just fine on layer pellets and scratch grains.

To my knowleage the sole reason for using a medicated feed is Coccidia. Coccidia are everywhere and the protocol goes - feed antibiotics untill the chicks are old enough and have an immune system that is well enough developed that they can fight off the organism on their own.

Last year we brooded 4 batches of chicks. The first two were from the feed store and were started on medicated chick starter, the third was indubated here and started on chick starter but switched over to layer pellets way earlier than I normally would (you wet the layer pellets with warm water, softening them so the young birds can eat them). We ran out of medicated feed, and I didn't want to go out and buy 25 lbs when I only needed 3-5 lbs. The third batch was a brood from one of the hens who 'snuck one in on us'. We pulled the chicks from that hen and brooded them ourselves. Harold was worried that rats would get them. Those chicks were reared solely on moistened layer pellets. We've had two other batches of chicks that hens have snuck in on us, one batch of 13 and another batch of 4. Those we let the hens raise on their own. The one with 13 lost all but one to rats, and the mom with 4 up and disapeared one day (the hen, her 4 and the one from the other hen who had become independant and was hanging out with them instead of her own mom), I suspicion predators got them too. The predators I'm talking about are not hawks, they're rats, possibly racoons and skunks as well. A very large racoon was killed in front of our house Saturday night.

Anyway, getting back to where I was going with the chick info. All chicks grew at the same rate, on both medicated and non medicated feeds. I think that one of the reasons may be that we actually start chicks in the house, not in the barn, and they don't go out untill they're big enough to be able to swallow layer pellets. So by the time the birds are old enough to go out and be exposed to our native coccidia population, they're old enough to have pretty robust immune systems.  

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


[ Parent ]
This is true (4.00 / 2)
- a chicken can incubate a turkey just fine (I've seen it done)

As long as the temp and humidity requirements are the same (or have the same range) chickens can incubate all sorts of other species' eggs. That's why the pheasant and game bird breeders use them. When I talk about pheasant and game birds, I'm not talking about ringneck pheasant and bob white quail. I'm talking about Hymalayan Monal, also known as the Impeyan pheasant, Palawan Peacock pheasant, Ocelated Turkey, Eared pheasants, etc. I actually used to have the eared pheasants, both the white eared and blue eared (one's white and the other slate blue, but the ears on both species are white). Birds like these don't do well with artificial incubation, and if you let the hen set her own clutch, you'll loose what little production you might have each year. Most of these birds have very short laying seasons, and the birds are worth a lot of money and/or are in conservation programs, so you use silky hens, the world's best mommas.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


[ Parent ]
Just got back from the feed store (4.00 / 3)
I had to pick up layer pellets and scratch grains.

I looked and some of the starters had Amprolium (the coccidiostat usually in the commercial starter crumbles) some didn't. Amprolium is approved for use in chickens, turkeys and pheasant.

According to this - Amprol 25% Type A Medicated Article, the dosage in feed is the same for turkeys and chickens, but higher for pheasants. That's why I think I was feeding all the youngstock the same turkey/gamebird starter crumbles. Pheasants can be started on the lower rate, but it's probably not a good idea to start turkeys and chickens at the higher rate. The rate for chickens and turkeys is 0.0125%, the rate for pheasants is 0.0175%.

None of you are probably going to be raising pheasants, so if you were to go with a medicated crumble, I'd suggest you go with a chick starter or a turkey/gamebird starter.

I think I'm going to go with an unmedicated starter next year. The birds that went without this year did fine, and for my part, if I don't need it, I ain't gonna use it.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


[ Parent ]
very nice! (4.00 / 2)
I was thinking of building a structure and making the roof a planter. That way the hens would have shade and a safe place to roost and I wouldn't be giving up any valuable real estate (the yard's small) for growing food. Plus, the dog wouldn't be able to reach and eat whatever we grow on top of the coop. Then I'd get moveable fencing or something to let the hens out during the day.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

[ Parent ]
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