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i am soooooo fed up

by: RiaD

Thu Jul 30, 2009 at 17:57:14 PM PDT


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(I've been gearing up to write something about this, but RiaD says it pretty darn well! I'll still post something in the next few days but in the meantime, read what RiaD has to say. - promoted by Jill Richardson)

i am just so fed up with mis-information being handed out as truth & people being so effing lazy they believe it. even people who question the gov't & the info they put out (propoganda)in other areas (politics, healthcare) believe crap articles about food/organics like this one that was everywhere yesterday......
RiaD :: i am soooooo fed up
from reuters
Organic food is no healthier, study finds
Researchers from the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine said consumers were paying higher prices for organic food because of its perceived health benefits, creating a global organic market worth an estimated $48 billion in 2007.

"A small number of differences in nutrient content were found to exist between organically and conventionally produced foodstuffs, but these are unlikely to be of any public health relevance," said Alan Dangour, one of the report's authors.

"Our review indicates that there is currently no evidence to support the selection of organically over conventionally produced foods on the basis of nutritional superiority."

first off the title is BS.
second they took it from this BBC article (which also has a BS title) and left out all the quotes that show the study was flawed

 
The Food Standards Agency who commissioned the report said the findings would help people make an "informed choice".

   But the Soil Association criticised the study and called for better research.

   

Differences that were detected, for example in levels of nitrogen and phosphorus, were most likely to be due to differences in fertilizer use and ripeness at harvest and are unlikely to provide any health benefit, the report concluded.

   The review did not look at pesticides or the environmental impact of different farming practices.

   Dr Dangour, said: "Our review indicates that there is currently no evidence to support the selection of organically over conventionally produced foods on the basis of nutritional superiority."

  He added that better quality studies were needed.

 

Peter Melchett, policy director at the Soil Association said they were disappointed with the conclusions.

   "The review rejected almost all of the existing studies of comparisons between organic and non-organic nutritional differences.

   "Although the researchers say that the differences between organic and non-organic food are not 'important', due to the relatively few studies, they report in their analysis that there are higher levels of beneficial nutrients in organic compared to non-organic foods.

   "Without large-scale, longitudinal research it is difficult to come to far-reaching clear conclusions on this, which was acknowledged by the authors of the FSA review.

   "Also, there is not sufficient research on the long-term effects of pesticides on human health," he added.

when i read the reuters article my first thought was who funded the study because as any thinking person should know by now you need to follow the money

from an article i found at huffpuff:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

The FSA is a branch of the government of the United Kingdom, but states on it's website that it "works at 'arm's length' from Government because it doesn't report to a specific minister and is free to publish any advice it issues." With no oversight, influence over the selected research could have been a factor in the outcomes. A look at the profiles of the head of FSA reveals former employees of agribusinesses like Arla Foods (now part of Europe's largest dairy), Sarah Lee Corporation, and UK grocery giant Sainsbury's. Therefore it is not hard to assume that the perspective may lean towards what is best for agribusiness interests.

The FSA report was commissioned to determine whether or not the nearly 4 billion dollar organic industry in Great Britain could claim higher health benefits when selling its products. By rendering the playing field equal for conventional farmers, the government and the agricultural sector wouldn't have to begin the difficult work of shifting the unwieldy agricultural system towards sustainability.

please go read that huffpuff link. it is by Paula Crossfield of civileats and is an excellent rebuttal of the BBC article & is full of information. & please buzz-up or digg or tweet or whatever to get this article the attention it deserves.

**update 7/31**
please also go read Graham Hill's article Science Fails to State the Obvious: Organic is Healthier also at huffpuff & buzz, digg & tweet it also!

here is the actual UK study

neither the authors nor the study itself make any such claim (that organic has no more nutrients) at least in its abstract or any portion actually quoted in any of these articles. it is a review of analysis of nutrient quality only, and that only with respect to eleven nutrients. it is also not a synthesis of gajillions of papers, as the articles imply.

on another blog someone said


Of COURSE the NUTRIENT content is the same.

The NUTRIENT content of ANY two exact same compounds is the same!!!!

Jesus.

they they go on to make some BS claim about the nutrient content of Ann Coulter & this person would be exactly the same.

jeezaflyinspaghettimonster!!

this was my reply

no, i disagree
these are not "the exact same compounds."

no, the nutrient content of you & ANYone else will not be the same.
it all depends on YOUR intake.
if all you consume is vitamins in capsules & pills (or cheesey-poofs & beer) you will contain less nutrients than someone who eats a balanced diet of real foods.

just as nutrient content in plants differ by what type of soil they are grown in, what types of fertilizer & when it is applied & how much water & when in the growth cycle it occurs.

it is only logical that food grown in soil that has been drenched with round-up (poison) & given only chemical fertilizer will have less nutrients than food grown in soil enriched with mulch & compost, that contains worms & bugs.

please see this:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

& this about eggs:
http://www.motherearthnews.com...

   

eggs from hens raised on pasture may contain:
   • 1/3 less cholesterol
   • 1/4 less saturated fat
   • 2/3 more vitamin A
   • 2 times more omega-3 fatty acids
   • 3 times more vitamin E
   • 7 times more beta carotene

and this on agri-business:
http://www.motherearthnews.com...

   

This shift in production methods is clearly giving us less nutritious eggs and meat. Beef from cattle raised in feedlots on growth hormones and high-grain diets has lower levels of vitamins E, A, D and betacarotene, and twice as much fat, as grass-fed beef. Health writer Jo Robinson has done groundbreaking work on this subject, collecting the evidence on her Web site, www.eatwild.com, and in her book "Pasture Perfect."

   Similar nutrient declines can be documented in milk, butter and cheese. As one researcher writing in the Journal of Dairy Research explained, "It follows that continuing breeding and management systems that focus solely on increasing milk yield will result in a steady dilution of vitamins and antioxidants." (Today's "super-cows" are bred and fed to produce 20 times more milk than a cow needs to sustain a healthy calf.)

   How much, and why, the nutrients in vegetables and fruits may be declining is less clear. Comparisons of 2004 data from the USDA's National Nutrient Database, with numbers from 1975, show declines in nutrients........


i just don't understand how anyone could NOT get this. how anyone could believe bigAg is telling the truth. they are paying gajillions to lobbyists to tilt legislation in their favor & keep small farmers from getting ahead. they're paying off news orgs to report only what they want the public to see & 'spin' the rest.

i just wish people would wake up & realize that you can't take ANYthing at face value anymore. you've got to follow the money and fer gawds sakes do some research for yourself!

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i am soooooo fed up | 14 comments
i just needed (4.00 / 7)
to get this off my chest.

thanks for reading.

come firefly-dreaming with me....


Nice one (4.00 / 3)
this should go on frontpage (maybe with different title?). I saw that headline the other day on the front of yahoo and I was gonna check it, but never did.  

[ Parent ]
ACTION item (4.00 / 2)
Please go ask the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
to release the article Nutritional Quality of Organic Foods: A Systematic Review so everyone can read it without the filter of news organizations like Reuters.  

come firefly-dreaming with me....

[ Parent ]
Thanks, Ria! (4.00 / 3)
Fantastic piece, thanks for the post!

Jill promoted it before I got the chance to do so, lol...

:)

This whole kerfuffle (always love getting a chance to use that word!), when compared to the joke that was the plastic bag industry's recent "expose" on "the dangers(!)" of reusable canvas bags (I wrote about that in a Sampler Platter a few months back, can find the link if you want) is really eye-opening.

That corporate-funded (plastic bag) "study" was quite rightly ignored (and in some quarters, ridiculed mercilessly) by pretty much everybody... but this one is being trumpeted by many as some sort of major breakthrough?  Wtf?

Just goes to show what we're up against, and that we can't rest for a second.  Any 'study' of relative merits that doesn't even consider the (environmental & personal health) ramifications of massive pesticide use (just for starters) isn't even worth the paper or pixels upon which it's printed.  Never mind the numerous other problems with this story...

Thanks again for the post, Ria.  Fantastic job!


thanks jay! (4.00 / 3)
♥~

come firefly-dreaming with me....

[ Parent ]
thanks jill! (4.00 / 3)
i look forward to what you have to say on this!!
♥~

come firefly-dreaming with me....

well I am mad as hell too.. (4.00 / 3)
I cannot believe what passes for critical thinking these days. But people don't have the time or the inclination to follow the money.I mean look at the crazy right wing loon who said our government was going to kill seniors?

What's with ag/food journalism anyway? (4.00 / 3)
So many of the reporters write articles that are obviously just repackaging the USDA's/BigAg/etc's position on a subject. With search engines it is so easy to bring up articles written by different reporters that use the same strange phrase or wording, but never attribute the information to the original source.

Then there is the reporter who has access for a personal interview and apparently never questions the "facts" being presented. And the really bad articles never seem to have a place for leaving comments.

It really irritates  me when I read or hear newspaper journalists putting down the blogosphere, the supposed misinformation, and the implication about the readers' intelligence to know the difference. Yet the information that I read here and on other sites always has links to the source and sometimes links to opposing points of view, plus the author of the article is usually available to answer questions and clarify.

Maybe we need to find a way to demand more accountability from the traditional journalists.



food issues are portrayed as black and white but (4.00 / 2)
in the trenches its much more grey

sure industrial conventional vs small farm organic may be different nutritionally.

but industrial organic vs conventional = little difference.

or take organic apples versus IPM using conventional limited chem applications. i highly doubt there is little if any nutritional difference and the data backs that up since apples are rarely fertilized anyhow. like any chemical application would change the inherent nutritional profile. its an apple duh....

the science i have seen is pretty weak on making nutritional claims for organic as a whole being better. meat and dairy may be the strongest argument. organic should be "sold" on the ethical and environmental implications which are real and stay away from infomercial like claims of nutritional superiority that have little if any slam dunk science to back it up.

in my world as a farmer the continuum of non organic growing techniques ranges quite a bit so its impossible to make blanket claims that organic vs everything else is  bad. the world is just not that black and white in my view as a grower.  


I agree with Bud on this (4.00 / 2)
both as far as growing methodologies go and on how organics should be promoted.

Actually the biggest reason I've always heard in favor of organic is that organic growing methods use fewer chemicals, encourage diversified farms, crop and livestock rotation, discouraging the chronic use of herbicides, pesticides, antibiotics and other drugs used in animal agriculture, etc. That is, organics use more sustainable methods that are healthier for soils, the water system in a given area, etc.

Bud is correct in that conventional ag embraces many, many different growing methodologies, from heavy use of pesticides and herbicides to minimal use, and from pastured or free range animal production to confinement and feed lot/dry lot production of animals. From monocrop systems with virtually no crop rotation to very diverse systems with an extraordinary ammount of crop rotation.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


[ Parent ]
yes (4.00 / 2)
i agree. there is little difference. organics needs to be promoted from the sustainability of the planet point not necessarily the nutritional point.

but.

1- there is a difference... if only small it IS a difference. &  over a whole day/week/month that adds up.

2- putting up BS titles & 'spinning' information into dis-information is bogus. what the reuters article said & what the BBC article said are vastly different imo. & they are far from what the study said.

my point....at least the point i was trying to get across is
i'm astounded that people, liberal bloggers to be exact, who question every study on ANY other subject, who fact check every speech & claim made, who question the truth of policies & legislature, who call BS loudly when politicians & 'news' casters tell outright lies.....why oh why do they just accept at face value articles relating to food? it's like they just trust food...ANY food is good.


come firefly-dreaming with me....


[ Parent ]
I think it has to do with personal points of view and levels of trust (4.00 / 3)
Some people trust on one issue more than another, or they trust one group more than another. I observe this in listening to differences in liberal and conservative talk show hosts. If you take an given issue, often times a liberal will trust a liberal and a conservative a conservative. But if you have a conservative try something on a liberal, or vise verse, now you got a big dustup on your hands, with everyone claiming that the other side is trying to pull one over on the other. I observed this on certain servaillance issues, when Bush was in, it was 'OMG, he's taking our rights away!' on the part of the liberals and the conservative were just fine as frog's hair with it. Now,  I see Obama doing things just as egregious but no one says anything on the liberal side but the conservatives are all on about the Nanny State.

On the global warming issue, everyone questions the deniers' evidence claiming that the oil companies funded some of them and that taints the evidence. Forget the fact that a lot of the studies and evidence in support of global warming, especially anthropogenic causalities, is conducted by scientists who's funding is dependant on agreeing with the people writing the checks, and Al Gore, chief promoter is making or will be making millions on carbon trading that is only possible under a premise that global warming or any other type of climate change is primarily driven by human activities. But we have the deniers fact checking all the supporters evidence, but not a lot on their side, and the supporters accepting anything their camp says and picking appart the deniers data and hypothises.

I'm not saying that this is a good or a bad thing, I think it's just a human thing.

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....


[ Parent ]
I don't see the equivalency (4.00 / 2)
I see Obama doing things just as egregious but no one says anything on the liberal side but the conservatives are all on about the Nanny State.

What has Obama done that compares?? Even still, it's not like no one says anything, Keith, Rachel have been on him for legitimate stuff. Many bloggers have been on his case for legitimate and bogus stuff. Maybe your not hearing it because liberal talk radio sucks right now, Air America, are they even still around?

Forget the fact that a lot of the studies and evidence in support of global warming, especially anthropogenic causalities, is conducted by scientists who's funding is dependant on agreeing with the people writing the checks, and Al Gore, chief promoter is making or will be making millions on carbon trading that is only possible under a premise that global warming or any other type of climate change is primarily driven by human activities.

That's absurd. Gore is richer than he needs to be from Google. He's got well over $100 Million already.

I'm not 100% sold on A.P. climate change, but I think there's enough chance that it's true that we should do something about it. And what's the harm that we pollute less? I'm not a cap and trade guy, I think we can find innovation (and have found it) through other incentives.  


[ Parent ]
a rather elementary science question (4.00 / 1)
exists surrounding AGW and that is how to collect and analyze the temp data.

they claim a 1-2 degree C increase in average world temps

these folks

http://www.surfacestations.org/

have volunteers checking all of the automated government weather collection stations around the country.

some of their findings are truly amazing. weather collecting stations next to AC exhaust and parking lots and other obviously biasing situations. what is more amazing is that the feds do not toss these glaringly obvious bad pieces of data streams out.

any scientist could agree on some level that the task of managing the data set that shows or disproves AGW is not a simple task.

before climate change was a political and social issue the accuracy of this data was not so critical.  but when we try and make statements about average global temps increasing by 1-2 C and the slop in the data has a similar or larger error its clearly time to at leas take a careful look at how we came to the conclusions we seem to think are so certain.

this issue of data is often at the core of may science issues in industry and in research and has nothing to do with what individuals beleive - its a data accuracy issue.  that some people are so closed minded to even entertain the idea we need to keep looking at the data and other factors is sad really.

also another really interesting reality is that we are in the midst of the least sunspot activity in 150 years. this may explain why from Nodak to Maine across the top third of the nation we are having the coldest summer on record. there will be some real crop losses as this fall harvest unfolds. the reality is we know so little about the sun and its affects on our climate. just another piece of the puzzle we need to learn more about.

in my view the deniers are just as stupid as the rabid beleivers many of whom have little if any appreciation for science. Grist is a prime example of a lot of chest pounding and expounding by individuals with little to no credentials to back up their wild claims of gloom and doom. its funny really to read if you have an open mind.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07...

this recent NYT article leaves more questions then answers. if a maulder minimum is on its way we seriously will have problems growing the amount of food we need because its too effing cold! the rabid beleives will look as stupid as the absolute deniers.

i tell you in my life working bees and growing fruit you learn that nothing is certain as you would like - many shades of grey and as soon as you think otherwise you get slapped in the head with reality.

bee humble and leave no trace is my motto


i am soooooo fed up | 14 comments
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