Vegan FAIL

ok I cheated last night (4.00 / 7)

too, I haven't been eating sugar and I have noticed that I have lost a lot of the craving being mostly vegan. But last night I went out to a local showing of a documentary about exploited Korean women who think they will be singing in a bar and instead become hookers for GI'S . Its not finished and the film maker is trying to raise $$$$ to finish. It was in this small theater attached to one of those old movie houses built in the 20s...Anyway they had some kind of small organic gummy bears they were giving out and I ate...At least I didn't go to the store and buy some really crappy candy bar.

Speaking of chai,,,When I  opened up gmail this afternoon, the chat screen opened up and it was my daughter. In India..Her host family has been teaching her how to cook chai tea,roti and chana. She said the food is heavenly.

Do you eat the tofu cream cheese?

Are u leaving from Philly to Netroots nation in Pittsburgh?

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by: LeeN @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 21:04:45 PM UTC

I won't TOUCH that tofu cream cheese (4.00 / 5)

I'm not into eating strange processed crap, vegan or not. Oh, and I'll be going from Philly to NYC to Pittsburgh.  

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

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by: Jill Richardson @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 23:53:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I figured that..just asking.. (4.00 / 3)

my daughter who has been vegan since age 14 says just because its vegan doesn't mean its healthy. I went to buy vegan mayo and was appalled at the ingredients.  

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by: LeeN @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 11:49:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hardcore vegan questions (4.00 / 6)

Did we ever figure out if eating plants that grow in animal waste is vegan? Or if eating plants sprayed with animal based pesticide is vegan? (I use a fish oil spray)

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by: Curtis Abbey @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 21:12:08 PM UTC

No clue... (4.00 / 5)

The fish oil spray, I'd say not vegan?  I don't know, though.  I'm definitely not hardcore, by any means.  I suck as a vegan, lol...

But for this -

Did we ever figure out if eating plants that grow in animal waste is vegan?

I don't think anybody would say no there?  I mean, waste is an animal product, but I don't think anybody puts it on the same level as milk or honey?

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 21:21:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

or eggshells? (4.00 / 6)

in the compost? Or spread under the tomatoes to prevent blossom end rot?

Would diatomacious earth be an acceptable substitute? I'm almost certain the diatoms die of old age.

Yankee Frugality: use it up, wear it out, make it last, or do without.

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by: Anonymous Bosch @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 21:50:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Best guess... (4.00 / 5)

eggshells not okay in compost. Diatomacious earth probably okay, but I'm sure some vegans would probably object to even that.

I wish I knew half what the flock of them know
Of where all the berries and other things grow,
Cranberries in bogs and raspberries on top
Of the boulder-strewn mountain, and when they will crop.
--"Blueberries" by Robert Frost

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by: wide eyed lib @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 00:30:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

diatomaceous earth is OK (4.00 / 3)

vegans are only interested in the animal kingdom... all other life forms are OK to eat.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

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by: Jill Richardson @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 20:46:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

diatoms are phytoplanktons (4.00 / 4)

not zooplanktons. Related to algae, kelp.

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by: count @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 01:08:19 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

so no little skeletons? (4.00 / 4)

no calcium either? So much for that concept.

Yankee Frugality: use it up, wear it out, make it last, or do without.

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by: Anonymous Bosch @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 01:17:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Lots of little skeletons. (4.00 / 4)

Trillions upon uncountable trillions, but they are silica exoskeletons.

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by: count @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 01:33:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

that explains why they're (4.00 / 3)

murder on little bugs who lick the powder off their legs.

Clarity dawns.

Yankee Frugality: use it up, wear it out, make it last, or do without.

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by: Anonymous Bosch @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 01:40:43 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I didn't know that. (4.00 / 3)

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

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by: count @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 02:54:00 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

silica: sharp and pointy (4.00 / 3)

I was going to mention Rotonone as a suitable organic bug killer... because a back-to-the-lander I knew years ago used it.

BUT... the link above (just Google front page) and a lot of reading may show me wrong.

Yankee Frugality: use it up, wear it out, make it last, or do without.

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by: Anonymous Bosch @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 03:09:13 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Jay, it's more complicated than that (4.00 / 4)

Some vegans do try to avoid eating vegetables grown in manure, but others don't. It's as impossible to pigeon hole all vegans as it is to pigeon all progressives. :)

You can find a variety of viewpoints on this issue here.

I wish I knew half what the flock of them know
Of where all the berries and other things grow,
Cranberries in bogs and raspberries on top
Of the boulder-strewn mountain, and when they will crop.
--"Blueberries" by Robert Frost

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by: wide eyed lib @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 00:29:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

from your link... (4.00 / 3)

Lays to rest my quandry about eggshells.

But gets more interesting...

And it's certainly better than the monstrous manure lagoons that collect waste and marinate with the mass of chemicals which can be breached by poor linings, earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, tornados and poor upkeep which then pollutes waterways and kills off wildlife including fish in creeks and streams flowing downstream into the oceans to mix with the other petro-chemicals to create dead zones:

Taxpayers fund those manure lagoons at the price of $400,000 each via the Farm Bill in a program called EQIP:

A recurring theme...

Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure.

Back to Answers.com...

Part of the problem with mono-crops is that birds no longer have the habitat they had and with all the insects (their food supply) killed in the fields with pesticides (which also kill birds) they no longer fertilize the fields and forests with their guano. We are killing our world off with the idea that we can do it better than nature and the circle of life because we just don't think of all the implications of what we do when we divert things. In the end we end up with less not more.

And we can't spread to another area...

Yankee Frugality: use it up, wear it out, make it last, or do without.

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by: Anonymous Bosch @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 00:59:15 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks for the link (4.00 / 1)

I've always wondered about this question and it's good to get a variety of opinion.

The only thing I noticed though was that in a couple of the answers the posters talked about mushroom manure or mushroom compost as something vegans might use in their gardens because it's doesn't have animal products.  

I'm not vegan but in case anyone is and thinks this is an alternative better check first. Though recipes vary most mushroom compost or mushroom manure is made with some sort of animal manure as an ingredient with chicken being the most common and horse manure a close second.

I just happen to know this because I'm seriously been looking at growing mushrooms as part of my farm and have been doing a lot of research in how they are grown.  :D

 

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by: elizajade @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 22:14:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

just a thought to add to this (4.00 / 3)

whereas vegans don't eat honey, they do eat foods pollinated by bees. So they do rely on animals in the production of their food in some cases.

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

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by: Jill Richardson @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 20:47:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bless me bloggers, for I too have sinned... :) (4.00 / 6)

I had a couple cups of coffee with cream, as you know.  So shoot me...

:)

Millet's the gummy stuff, isn't it?  Don't think I've ever had it.  I want some bulgur wheat, is what I want.  Maybe gotta stop at the coop tomorrow.  

I'm not usually much for sweet things, but I think I'm gonna try a sorbet this week sometime.

Still admiring my creation from last night - emmer, mashed black beans, asparagus and tahini on a giant whole wheat wrap.  Had enough leftover to make one for breakfast, too.  Yum!  I think next time I try that (probably tomorrow or Monday), I'll add a bunch of other stuff like shredded beets and shredded carrots, sweet onion, maybe spinach.

I surprise myself by not really missing cheese much (except mozzarella and blue cheese!), DO miss eggs, and I had this odd craving for sour cream the other day -

Bowl of brown rice and beans, and I says to myself, I says: "Self?  I could REALLY use some sour cream in this..."

Never even ate sour cream much, but things like that used to happen to me occasionally.  Then I'd get a little 4-oz. thing from the farmers' market, and it would take me like forever to finish it after my initial craving was over.  By the end, to make sure I didn't waste any, I'd start throwing it in scrambled eggs and omelets and stuff just to get rid of it.

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 21:18:06 PM UTC

I missed the Vegan boat today too (4.00 / 5)

Early lunch was potato salad, rice and tri tip washed down with the greatest drink ever. Trader Joes Very Green Juice Blend. Apple Juice, Mango Puree, Pineapple Juice, Banana Puree, Kiwi Puree, Spirulina, Natural Flavor?Grrr, Chlorella, broccoli, spinach, barley grass, wheat grass, parsley, ginger root, blue green algae and odorless garlic. They should pay me to talk about this stuff. (And Jay needs an Emmer endorsement). Trader Joes Execs are you listening?  

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by: Curtis Abbey @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 21:24:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Heh... (4.00 / 5)

You should do what I did - I made myself President of The American Emmer Eaters Society.

Yeargh!

Wheat grass: I've never had a wheat grass shot before, but I've been curious for a while.  There's this awesome little juice cart outside my coop, and they have them.  I came thisclose to trying, but I decided that 4 dollars for an ounce of something that's not weed (whoops, who said that?!) will just have to wait until the money situation is a little better here...

And apropos of nothing, really - if I'm ever in Salt Lake City, I am so living off of these places food-wise while I'm there.  Anybody here from Utah, btw?  Lurkers, anybody?

Bueller?  Bueller?

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 21:44:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I like millet. (4.00 / 2)

It cooks up fluffy, kind of like mashed potatoes.  It has a pleasant, nutty taste.

It is a perfect sauce-catcher, to be served with something braised, perhaps?

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by: Sara Reed @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 16:25:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hmmm... (4.00 / 1)

I should try it.  Might as well! :)

Maybe I'll pick some up at People's in a bit.  Heading up there soon anyways.

O/T - Hey, I just posted a message to the neighborhood yahoo group.  Have you seen a glass recycling receptacle (one of the big blue can-ish ones) somewhere it shouldn't be?  Oddly enough, it seems that the one from our building has been stolen...

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 00:06:16 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

OMG! I'm appalled! (4.00 / 6)

Cheatin' Jill's diary isn't up more than a few minutes and three, count 'em THREE, cheaters spill the beans on themselves in as many minutes.

"What's the world coming to?" asks the smoker who's lost count of how many quitting FAILs he's racked up.

And none of you were even waterboarded. Appalled, I tellz ya.

Btw, I'm on my last can of tobacco. The last. Two weeks minus a couple of days and I'll join the ranks of non-stinkers.

OH! And you Mister, ten Our Fathers and ten Hail Marys.

Yankee Frugality: use it up, wear it out, make it last, or do without.

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by: Anonymous Bosch @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 21:38:21 PM UTC

Just 2 cheaters (4.00 / 5)

Only two cheaters besides Jill. I was never in the Vegan challenge..

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by: Curtis Abbey @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 00:15:19 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Ah Ha! (4.00 / 4)

You're daring me to go back and check, aren't you? I'm not going to do it. I'll take your word for it. But that banana grass and wheat root and blue garlic all sounded pretty close to the real deal. You sure you're not protecting yourself from the humiliation inflicted on starvationarians?

Yankee Frugality: use it up, wear it out, make it last, or do without.

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by: Anonymous Bosch @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 00:34:09 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

all kidding aside, guys... (4.00 / 6)

Just get right back on the horse(radish) that bit you and continue your challenge. There's still a long way to go, and a little stumble in the beginning is to be expected; illuminating really, in just how difficult it is to change one's diet.

Hear! Hear! for sticking with it!  

Yankee Frugality: use it up, wear it out, make it last, or do without.

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by: Anonymous Bosch @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 22:09:41 PM UTC

Ponder why (1.00 / 1)

you never hear of  meat eaters cheating and go Vegan?

Just look to Africa to see how a diet free from dairy and animal protein has been devastating to the populations overall life expectancy and general health.  Its called malnutrition - here in the land of everything we have a fancy name for it  "vegan" and attempt to glorify it via political positions.

IMHO anything taken to extremes is a bad idea.....

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by: bud dingler @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 22:45:26 PM UTC

. (4.00 / 5)

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 22:50:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think you missed the point, Bud. (4.00 / 5)

I took the diary as a lighthearted "Mea culpa." I'm sure they are eating plenty of fruits and vegetables and legumes and grains and nuts. None of the commenters above said anything about starving or living on a bowl of rice a day. Foods you've eaten all your life are pretty difficult to give up "cold tofurkey" overnight. No wonder they had pangs and succumbed to them in the beginning.

Vegan and starvation or malnutrition aren't on the same page. Sheesh! They're not even in the same book.

Yankee Frugality: use it up, wear it out, make it last, or do without.

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by: Anonymous Bosch @ Sat Jun 27, 2009 at 23:05:37 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I understand that the comment missed the point (4.00 / 3)

and also disrespects a laudable perspective, but I disagree that it is so offensive that it should be hidden. Are our sensitivities really that fragile?

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by: count @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 01:20:47 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I could give the comment a 4 (4.00 / 2)

to try to unhide it, but I would prefer that others remove their troll ratings. Jay's response probably does the necessary.

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by: count @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 01:23:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

a 3 = 0 and unhidden. (4.00 / 2)

I thought earlier that such insistent ignorance merited a wider audience. If it gets unzeroed, I'll conform.

Yankee Frugality: use it up, wear it out, make it last, or do without.

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by: Anonymous Bosch @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 01:31:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I wasn't trying to hide the comment (4.00 / 3)

I was just marking bud as a troll. The guy is a grumpy asshole and brings this site down.  

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by: Curtis Abbey @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 02:17:24 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

it only takes 2 zeros to hide the comment (4.00 / 4)

A casual visitor might wonder what the fuss was about unless they had the "Hidden Comments" engaged. His rants look like philosophical obtuseness rather than the personal invective typical of trolls. At least he's not shilling payday loans...
yet.

I'm hoping the others change to "None" so I can go back to looking like an ass for my own reasons, and not for supporting dingler.

Yankee Frugality: use it up, wear it out, make it last, or do without.

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by: Anonymous Bosch @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 03:02:49 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I removed my hide rec because I was asked (4.00 / 3)

However, I find it truly repugnant and reprehensible that someone would conflate veganism and starvation. It's insulting to vegans but that's the least of it; I find it patently offensive that Bud is callowly making light of the horrors of severe malnutrition.

I wish I knew half what the flock of them know
Of where all the berries and other things grow,
Cranberries in bogs and raspberries on top
Of the boulder-strewn mountain, and when they will crop.
--"Blueberries" by Robert Frost

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by: wide eyed lib @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 12:32:07 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Part of the reason why (4.00 / 4)

people in Africa dies young has to do with war, pestilance, fighting politcal systems between and within countries making it impossible for people to settle down and make a living, be that subsistence farming, hunting or fishing. Then there's the lack of medical care, etc. Many people in Aftica die of AIDS, I don't think that has anything to do with a lack of animal protein and dairy.

What's going on in Darfur right now has absolutely noting to do with a lack of animal protein or dairy.

I was watching a program a few months ago, it may have been on LINK TV, on Africa. The program showed poor people in a city surrounded by food in open air markets. These people were suffering from malnutrition, not from a lack of food, but from a lack of money to buy the food with. They were encouraged to leave land that they had been farming and raising livestock/poultry on at a subsistence level and move to the city where all would be better. God, we can't have those poor souls ekeing out a life working the land. Now they're in cities, with no jobs, no money, and no food. At least when they were 'ekeing' out a living, they had something to eat....

Ain't progress wonderfull?

Regarding locavores as elitists - explain to me how supporting local business is elitist....

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by: Joanne Rigutto @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 23:51:03 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

i have been to africa (0.00 / 0)

dozens of times with a group that teaches farming and nutritional knowledge. as i am a beekeeper i have winters in North America free to travel.

anyhow everyone should travel to africa and see how people live. drought is common in some regions lasting decades. the methods they grow crops are crude.

i'm sorry but what we call vegan is called malnutrition in Africa. I stand by my statement that in the land of EVERYTHING we have a fancy political name for eating only plant material. they have no luxuries over there to decide what to eat.

talk to a doctor about eating vegan. many young American people have no clue as to how to balance their politically correct diet and get all of the vitamins and minerals they need as they are uninformed. many health proffesionals also agree that many well meaning people pursuing a vegan lifestyle are terribly unprepared in how to get enough protein and fat into their carrot stick diet. I'm not saying Jill is uninformed - I just don;t believe this should be glorified as its taken out of context by many young people.  its hard enough to eat well in this country full of junk and poser food and college age kids have an even more difficult time finding the right mix of vegan food.

a intern from harvard that worked in my apriary ended up in the hospital after 18 months basically starving on her politically correct diet complicated by depression.

some young people here in America with depression and behavior issues are possibly aggrevating their condition by a poorly researched self induced vegan diet based on some reports I have seen and my own experience with a former intern.

trash me if you will and call me a troll. you are only showing your ignorance and how small of a world you live in...... this blog space appears to be willing to challenge the status quo - great - just don't create your own little group think echo chamber and become blind to other ideas etc.  

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by: bud dingler @ Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 13:48:44 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Millet (4.00 / 5)

Cook it and add it to soups, jalfreezis, vegan chilis.

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by: count @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 01:28:55 AM UTC

Millet cakes (4.00 / 6)

I like this recipe:
http://desertculinary.blogspot...

I make a vegan parmesan substitute from nutritional yeast, walnuts, etc. found here:
http://greenandcrunchy.blogspo...

The burgers can go on a bun, or on greens with a bit of chutney on top, or a gazillion other ways. And you can make the cakes up to the point of slipping them into the skillet, so they're ready for a quick meal for a few days.

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by: The Western Sun @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 04:50:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thank you -- (4.00 / 5)

the millet cakes look very interesting!

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by: Sara Reed @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 16:27:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

thanks (4.00 / 3)

I need all the help I can get here!!!

"I can understand someone from Iowa promoting corn and soy, but we are not feeding the world, we are feeding animals and soft drink companies." - Jim Goodman

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by: Jill Richardson @ Sun Jun 28, 2009 at 20:48:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]