Sampler Platter

saw Food Inc here (4.00 / 2)

in Philly at the film festival. Its an important movie and I hope a lot of people see it. Please post something after you view it.

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by: LeeN @ Wed Apr 29, 2009 at 20:06:03 PM UTC

Absolutely! (4.00 / 1)

Gonna try to have a review up here on Friday.

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Wed Apr 29, 2009 at 20:09:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think banning bottled water is a bad idea (4.00 / 2)

Sometimes you need a drink in a container, and if people are drinking water, that is not a bad thing. Yes, the single serving containers can get out of hand, and we can encourage people to reduce/reuse/recycle, but drinking fountains aren't really a thorough substitute.

I remember the Old Days before bottled water was popular. When you were thirsty, you had to buy soda. It wasn't better.

And of all the things the parks can sell to raise money, this seems like a winner on the whole.

As it was, he did a deal with a blancmange, and the blancmange ate his wife.

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by: elfling @ Wed Apr 29, 2009 at 22:51:29 PM UTC

In parks? (4.00 / 1)

I'm not aware of any parks that are big enough to have vending machines that also lack drinking fountains.

And recycling those bottles is a good idea in theory, but it rarely happens in practice as can be seen in the trash cans of any park I've been to...

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Wed Apr 29, 2009 at 23:19:47 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You should get out more :-) (0.00 / 0)

First of all, drinking fountains are not all that easy to use for many people. And they break. It is hard to get a long, satisfying drink from one, especially on a hot day. It's hard to refill a bottle from them, too.

Second, the site of the drinking fountain is often far away from where you happen to be. "Just walk," I hear you saying, but that is not so easy if you're watching a couple of kids on a playground. I might be watching my daughter play, and slowly sip most of a bottle's worth.

Since you want an example, I'll offer up the Kentucky Horse Park. There are drinking fountains, but it's a big park, and you could be over a mile away from the nearest one.

In California, we have recycling bins everywhere. It's a simple matter to add a recycling can next to every trash can. Those bins may be full, but are they really all water, no soda? How long since they were emptied?

I reuse bottles most of the time, though I understand not everyone does. It's much rarer for people to reuse soda bottles. But I think we will be better off educating people and encouraging reuse rather than banning all use. Sometimes a bottle of water is the right choice.


As it was, he did a deal with a blancmange, and the blancmange ate his wife.

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by: elfling @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 15:25:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Reusing plastic bottles? (0.00 / 0)

Meh, BPA.

And the proposed ban is to keep bottles of water out of vending machines.  If someone wants to bring them into the park from outside?  That's their call.  Nobody's banning that.

And re: a long walk - that wouldn't also be the case for vending machines?  In parks that have both, I've never seen more vending machines than drinking fountains.

And vending machines don't break?

"The essence of the independent mind lies not in what it thinks, but in how it thinks." - Christopher Hitchens

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by: JayinPortland @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 22:08:21 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well, I do reuse plastic bottles (4.00 / 1)

If you're worried about BPA then you shouldn't buy bottled water at all.

If there are vending machines and drinking fountains, and the parks are doing boffo sales of water in the vending machines, then that tells me that the patrons find value in having water in a container available on site. I would respectfully ask that you consider why someone would pay $1 or $2 for water when they could have it for free. Maybe their reasons are silly, or maybe they're good. Maybe signs around the vending machines pointing to the drinking fountains and encouraging 'reduce reuse recycle' might help.

My experience is that as a mom, having a small container of water is much more workable than drinking fountains. And, sometimes it turns out that I didn't bring any, or didn't bring enough. Trust me, at $2 to $3 a bottle, I really really don't want to buy one if I can help it. But, I think it would be really misguided to prohibit those sales in the name of environmentalism.

At the Kentucky Horse park, which is something like 600 acres, there are actually more vending machines than drinking fountains, or were last time I visited. But that's not the point - the point is that all the amenities are concentrated into a small portion of the park, and that as you roam you could find yourself far from a drinking fountain. Given how hot it can be there, park visitors might actually find themselves in significant distress before they would be able to return to the drinking fountains.

As for maintenance, it seems that people who own vending machines and who expect them to generate money do a pretty good job of monitoring them (they can send electronic distress calls) and maintaining them. Public parks, sadly, do not seem to have the same resources nor the same interest in ensuring that the drinking fountains are online 24/7.

So please: consider that there are occasions where the vending machines  might be a force for good, and consider how you might encourage 'responsible' use, rather than advocating for their removal. In my own experience, having a bottle of water available for sale for $3 is potent incentive to bring my own next time, oddly more so than having to use drinking fountains.

As it was, he did a deal with a blancmange, and the blancmange ate his wife.

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by: elfling @ Thu Apr 30, 2009 at 23:34:12 PM UTC

[ Parent ]